Support for Scrub Planes

[ac445ab]

Ciao,
Rare or not, I have my scrub plane on the shelf ready to use.
I find it useful for a first leveling job on rough boards as well as for quickly reducing width of some mms planing on the edge.
I find this plane light and handy. Moreover the heavy cambered blade helps to reduce tear out.

Here I show mine in use (forgive me for subtitles )
http://woodworkingbyhand2.blogspot.com/ ... plane.html

Regards
Giuliano

 

[jimi43]

Hi Giuliano

First may I compliment you on a superb video!

I enjoyed it in Italian...although I cannot speak it....it was very relaxing...or was it the classy music!

Only an Italian would do woodwork in a tailored Italian shirt! Brilliant!!!

Of course left handed people are far more artistic! :wink:

Also...loved the selection of Japanese saws on the wall....all in all...a very informative and enjoyable video! Bravo!! =D> =D>

Jim

 

[Jacob]

So what this thread and Giuliano's excellent video demonstrates is how useful/essential is a well cambered blade - whether or not it is in a purpose made scrub plane.

Why don't British wooden planes have the continental horn handle? Or even just a knob?

Next project - I'm going to make one of my old jacks into an uber-scrubber with a huge knob.

 

[bugbear]

So what this thread and Giuliano's excellent video demonstrates is how useful/essential is a well cambered blade - whether or not it is in a purpose made scrub plane.

For fast stock removal - absolutely, well spotted. =D> =D>

We'll teach you about tools yet!

I wouldn't worry about converting a jack to a scrub, since you've already got a perfectly good scrub than can do the tasks you want.

Unless you just want to mess around with tools, find out which is best etc, in which case welcome to the club.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

....

For fast stock removal - absolutely, well spotted. =D> =D>

We'll teach you about tools yet!

You've missed the point (as usual :roll: :roll: ) - fast stock removal is desirable with each and every plane - hence ditto camber (with odd exceptions).

A plane with a similarly narrow but straight edged blade would work as a scrubber - but with pronounced tramlines and tear-out especially at the edges.
The advantages of camber are twofold;
1 you don't get tramlines, instead the cut tapers away less visibly and with less tearout
2 less obviously, a cambered blade has adjustable WIDTH - the width of the cut varies with the projection of the blade.
3 add a tilting mechanism and you can use DIFFERENT PARTS of the blade and take advantage of the whole of that sharpened edge.
Which is why the well cambered and properly set up Bailey pattern jack plane is about all you need most of the time for almost everything.

 

[Richard T]

I've never had a "proper" scrub plane and the the idea of the technique only dawned on me a few years ago.

Some one gave me a big, round - soled profile plane. Hardly what you could call profile really, just a general scooper. It's about 1 - 1/8" wide and the camber of the iron (and sole) is quite a lot.
As soon as I got it I sharpened it, started playing with it (quelle surprise) and instantly noticed that it would take clean grooves across the worst knotty elm that then could be easily smoothed with a bench plane. I'd invented scrubbing.
The reason I've not got round to making a scrub with a flat sole is that I have got used to being able to roll this one around. As the edge is slightly more proud in the centre, I can adjust the cut just by turning the plane - little on its side, more when vertical.
I know that a flat soled scrub would be better for accurately flattening to pencil lines and one day I must get round to making one. NOT an infill I feel ...

 

[jimi43]

I don't know if it's just me but whilst plane threads just suffer from the occasional chatter....scrub plane threads are more susceptible to bicker.... :mrgreen: 8)

Anyone know of an mods which put a bigger cap on it...maybe that would sort it! 8) :mrgreen: #-o

Winter coats are so much more difficult to find in the summer, don'tcha think!! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[ac445ab]

Only an Italian would do woodwork in a tailored Italian shirt! Brilliant!!!

Only when I'm planing. Shavings do not dirty

 

[jimi43]

Only an Italian would do woodwork in a tailored Italian shirt! Brilliant!!!

Only when I'm planing. Shavings do not dirty

I know....but is it so classically Italian...perfect style! We Brits used to be like that too...

....but we would wear suit and tie as well!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

I spent some time going through your whole site...very well written and great educational source for the beginner and craftsman alike. =D>


Jim

 

[AndyT]

Some of us still do dress properly!

<------

 

[ac445ab]

I spent some time going through your whole site...very well written and great educational source for the beginner and craftsman alike. =D>

Thanks Jim for appreciating my blog, although I know, my English is very basic.
I like your forum and I follow your discussions with great interest. In UK you have a long tradition for hand woodworking and I have several very fine made English tools.
I have a dream.........one of your superb infill smoothing planes, like this you show in the blog (very pleasant to read)
http://www.ktproductions.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=102

.....may be for next Santa gift :ho2

Ciao,
Giuliano

 

[bugbear]

You've missed the point (as usual :roll: :roll: ) - fast stock removal is desirable with each and every plane - hence ditto camber (with odd exceptions).

There's a common and important type of planing where stock removal isn't the "point" at all; it's called "smooth planing".

As your woodworking experience grows, you'll probably come across it.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

.....
But sometimes, it was worth someone's time to make one. I reckon this example is user-made. No horn, but a good deep depression from a well-callussed thumb:

It's about 11" overall, made in two parts (so the central mortice can be sawn) then just screwed together.
..........

I had a well callussed thumb marked plane in this thread here which shows how old tools (like yours) would be kept in use right to the very end.

Doesn't look "made in two parts" to me - more like a ready-made old plane which was reduced in width by cutting down the middle and rejoining?
That'd account for the neatly finished details around the mouth, compared to the rough details elsewhere. Brilliant re-use of an old plane!
I had a look in W.L. Goodman and that odd nose design occurs in some old wooden planes but also in metal Spiers planes.

So for me it seems the scrub story is as follows;
Woodworkers past and present would modify old knackered planes for rough work called by some "scrubbing" (Salaman confirms this with "scrub" being just one of many names for "Roughing" planes).
Stanley and then Record tried to cash in on this with a purpose made scrubber, which failed here but caught on in America perhaps because there is more backwoods green woodworking going on. There are often a few on american ebay, not expensive.
LN & LV did the same by reintroducing expensive engineered-up versions which caught on with their fans and got the idea back into circulation. This is why many people had never heard of "scrub" planes until recently, though they may well have been using a nameless old plane for the purpose.
A european plane type called a "Bismarck" in Britain, is also purpose made for for roughing out, but according to Goodman "Bismarck" is more to do with the style (the horn handle) and British makers (Salmen etc) made similar planes in a style known as "continental" which weren't necessarily for rough work.

 

[Richard T]

I think Jacob's right. De - widthed down the middle, lowered at the back. Don't know about the front though, looks like it was shortened then the extra sole length was an afterthought. Maybe.
I have several candidates for this treatment ... another project to add to the heap.

What width is the iron Andy?

 

[AndyT]

Doesn't look "made in two parts" to me - more like a ready-made old plane which was reduced in width by cutting down the middle and rejoining?
That'd account for the neatly finished details around the mouth, compared to the rough details elsewhere. Brilliant re-use of an old plane!

Jacob, I've had another look and I think you're right on this one. The wedge - which would have to have been replaced - is noticeably less tidy than the mouth. So using a whole 'donor' plane would have given maximum economy of time and effort.

I have several other well-used old wooden planes, where the dents in the wood, or the lighter spots in the old darkened surface, give clear evidence of how the old craftsman would have held them.

 

[bugbear]

So for me it seems the scrub story is as follows;
Woodworkers past and present would modify old knackered planes for rough work called by some "scrubbing" (Salaman confirms this with "scrub" being just one of many names for "Roughing" planes).
Stanley and then Record tried to cash in on this with a purpose made scrubber, which failed here but caught on in America perhaps because there is more backwoods green woodworking going on. There are often a few on american ebay, not expensive.
LN & LV did the same by reintroducing expensive engineered-up versions which caught on with their fans and got the idea back into circulation. This is why many people had never heard of "scrub" planes until recently, though they may well have been using a nameless old plane for the purpose.
A european plane type called a "Bismarck" in Britain, is also purpose made for for roughing out, but according to Goodman "Bismarck" is more to do with the style (the horn handle) and British makers (Salmen etc) made similar planes in a style known as "continental" which weren't necessarily for rough work.

Yeah - more or less right (ignoring your anti LN/LV fetish), apart from the green woodworking and reference to Record.

BugBear

 

[heimlaga]

.....
But sometimes, it was worth someone's time to make one. I reckon this example is user-made. No horn, but a good deep depression from a well-callussed thumb:

It's about 11" overall, made in two parts (so the central mortice can be sawn) then just screwed together.
..........

I doubt that depression is caused by the thumb. I often find old razee jointers with a depression like that on top where the owner used a hammer to retract the blade. That is why I use a rubber mallet instead.

 

[Jacob]

Have been having a go with the ECE scrubber on the chain sawed surface of a leylandii bole sawn down the middle - rough stuff. It does the job better then anything else I've got, leaving a furrowed but level surface to be taken down further with a jack or smoother. 33mm wide blade with only about 20mm functional width sticking out, is as much as you'd need. Any wider would be redundant i.e. too hard to push. Heavier (metal body) would be hard work too - there is a lot of rapid to-ing and fro-ing.
It's just at the limit of pushing tool, a rougher surface would need axe, adze or gouge to be swung or hammered with force.
Longer could be better perhaps, but definitely not wider or heavier.
Ideal for this particular bit of rough work.
Surprising that such a little light-weight plane is so useful for rough work.

Have been reading Schwarz's article here. I think he's missed a trick by not trying a wooden one. This is one plane where the light weight of a woody is a big advantage.
He describes using the scrub to reduce board widths. I've been doing something similar for years - site work, usually fitting/scribing boards to an irregular wall - but roughing down to the scribe line with a hatchet (Spear & Jackson carpenter's axe) and then finer finishing with a block plane in one hand, at about 45º to the edge. A well cambered block plane would be good - a purpose made one-handed scrubber could replace the two tools I've been using.

 

[Jacob]

..
Right or wrong...... fell free to debate.

Right. Agree.

Explain, then, the existence #75 bullnose plane...

Easy - they are very cheap, but nobody knows they are useless until they've bought one!
Actually they are occasionally useful, although I can't remember when I last used mine. There was a time though.

Re-reading this thread and have remembered where a 75 comes in useful - you can get it into rebates in frames such as small window frames to make corrections (or remove glue/putty) where no other plane will go.

 

[bugbear]

..
Right or wrong...... fell free to debate.

Right. Agree.

Explain, then, the existence #75 bullnose plane...

Easy - they are very cheap, but nobody knows they are useless until they've bought one!
Actually they are occasionally useful, although I can't remember when I last used mine. There was a time though.

Re-reading this thread and have remembered where a 75 comes in useful - you can get it into rebates in frames such as small window frames to make corrections (or remove glue/putty) where no other plane will go.

#90A and #90J are the same size.

Still - I too have found a use for a #75. I found a SW era one, still in its box, at my local auction.

I sold it on eBay at some substantial profit and bought something decent.

BugBear