Segmented mug with W.I.P and questions

[JustBen]

This is my first segmented mug.

I've only turned a handful of things on the lathe so I'm still pretty much a novice.

It's made from American black walnut, Canadian maple and American cherry.

I had a few problems with the finish as I sprayed it with what I thought was acrylic lacquer. It was polyurathene and was tacky for ages.
I sanded it off and coated with finishing oil instead.

Just as a side note, I got my timber from britishhardwoods up in Airedale.
A very good service and what I believe is a pretty good price too.
They let me wander up and down the aisles and pick what I wanted in my own time and cut it up for me too.
I would highly recommend.

I only mention this as my first and last visit to whitmores in Leicestershire was very displeasing. Complete opposite to britishhardwoods.

On a second side note, how much would one of these mugs sell for? Or how much would someone be willing to pay for it?
Based on my cost calculations, it comes out at £45. Is that too much? Too cheap?

Thanks for looking.

Oh I will add the other images later as my ipad is refusing to work at the minutes.

 

[rafezetter]

It's a lovely mug - I don't think £45 is too much considering what it is. You can pay the same or more for a mass made pottery one.

 

[nev]

=D>

 

[=Adam=]

Hi benjimano,

The mug is excellent! I tried one before and I went too thin and it split however I have been meaning to try it again at some point!

The price tag of £45 sounds steep to me, but that is just me. I assume the majority of your cost would be made up of the time it took to produce along with the timber cost. Would I be right in saying that the timber was fairly expensive? Could you produce it cheaper by using lower costing wood?

That being said, there is a lot of skill and time that has gone into the production of that piece and I am sure that there are people who are willing to pay that sort of price for it, I am just not sure where you would find those people. Again, this could just be me talking from experience in my local area where people are generally tight fisted (me included), whereas in more affluent areas such as London etc £45 may well be doable.

 

[CHJ]

The finished item looks attractive and finish looks good despite effectively sealing? and then applying oil, oil is normally applied to bare wood.
Great work on the stave preparation.
Don't know that any oil other than a hard wax oil would last long in regular use.

A couple of queries, did you seal the inner surfaces before fitting the liner? If it's used it's going to get moisture exposure at the top join at least when swilled out.

How dry was the timber, and is the liner in contact down the length, just thinking of heat transfer and wood movement.

 

[JustBen]

Thanks for the comments.

The pricing was a rough guide. The materials were quite low with the majority being for the inner sleeve. (£5ish)
The wood would only be a couple of quid with the most being on labour.
I'm sure that I could improve the time to make if I was making multiples etc.

As this is only a hobby/additional income, I'm more concerned with quality that cost effectiveness.
Using cheaper materials would, in my mind, take away the uniqueness of this and other pieces.

I also have the thought that I wouldn't sell anything that I'm not prepared to buy myself. If it doesn't meet my standards, it doesn't leave the workshop.


I didn't seal the inside and I'm not sure how dry the wood is but the sawmill have it dried stored at 10%-15% moisture content and my workshop is very dry so I should imagine its somewhere around that figure.

The inner sleeve is a close fit all the way down. It's fixed with epoxy resin with a good amount around the lip.

I'm sure there are lots of ways to improve it but it's sometimes hard to find the info without trial and error.

I had originally intended on spraying with acrylic lacquer which I though would be best.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I also have the thought that I wouldn't sell anything that I'm not prepared to buy myself. If it doesn't meet my standards, it doesn't leave the workshop.

What an excellent attitude.
=D> =D>

 

[Woodturner1972]

Looks good, a real result =D>

 

[Baldhead]

I also have the thought that I wouldn't sell anything that I'm not prepared to buy myself. If it doesn't meet my standards, it doesn't leave the workshop.

What an excellent attitude.
=D> =D>

+1

Baldhead

 

[JustBen]

A couple of queries, did you seal the inner surfaces before fitting the liner? If it's used it's going to get moisture exposure at the top join at least when swilled out.

How dry was the timber, and is the liner in contact down the length, just thinking of heat transfer and wood movement.

What would be your choice/suggestion for a finish?
Is acrylic lacquer a reasonable finish?
Would it be better to leave a couple of mm gap inside or to have it a snug fit?
What would you coat the inside with?

Any other pointers.

Since you're here, I might as well pick your brains.

Thanks in advance.

 

[CHJ]

....What would be your choice/suggestion for a finish?
Is acrylic lacquer a reasonable finish?.

Acrylic lacquer is a hard wearing finish but not normally recommended for exterior use, how much you consider it's possible exposure to water or other hot fluids leans to similar conditions ? :duno:
Personally I would use either a Hard Wax Oil or a Melamine lacquer finish, the former being the easiest to apply, the latter being the most moisture resistant.

....Would it be better to leave a couple of mm gap inside or to have it a snug fit?.

Personally I would aim for a small air gap, reducing heat transfer to the wood should fluids near boiling point be used.

....What would you coat the inside with?.

At least a sanding sealer to reduce moisture intake, easiest and my personal inclination would be the Hard Wax Oil, adding some overall moisture resistance to help control atmospheric and in use moisture changes.

Remember if there is an air cavity then atmospheric air is going to move in and out as the liner temp. changes.

Were there no recommendations regarding liner fitting with it?

 

[JustBen]

Thanks for the answers. They were so good, I'm gonna throw some more in.

Is finishing oil the same or similar to hard wax oil?
I have limited knowledge of finishes.

The reason I ask about finishing oil is that I like to use Liberon products as they are all EN71 compliant. (Iirc)
It makes it easier for me and I don't have to have separate finishes for different items.

Will epoxy resin or polyurathene glue still work if the inside is coated with the sealer/hard wax oil?

I didn't buy it as a kit, I had and old travel mug that I broke to get the liner out.

 

[CHJ]

...Is finishing oil the same or similar to hard wax oil? .

Hard Wax Oil has additional waxes dissolved in it and dries to a harder surface finish.

...The reason I ask about finishing oil is that I like to use Liberon products as they are all EN71 compliant. (Iirc) It makes it easier for me and I don't have to have separate finishes for different items.

The bulk of my finishing products are from Chestnut and are the only products I read up on, according to the safety data sheet their HWO complies with EN-71.

...Will epoxy resin or polyurathene glue still work if the inside is coated with the sealer/hard wax oil?

See no reason why not, sealer certainly OK, just need to make sure the hard wax oil surface has 'cured' and is not wet.

Note:- use HWO (or any finishing oil for that matter) on unsealed wood to ensure it can soak in.

 

[JustBen]

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

 

[rafezetter]

Hi Benjamino - I'm genuinely interested in one of these, I'm a bit of an "unusual mug" collector, just things that catch my fancy and seeing as I FINALLY, FINALLY got a job (four years it took...christ! but almost worth the wait) this will be a 'lil present to myself.

I would not be using everyday, but reasonably often, so it would at the very least require to be rinsed out under a tap for a minute or so at a time.

As far as heat transfer goes, if you are going to leave a small air gap - an idea that struck me was to use polystyrene beads to both insulate the wood AND a bonus would be to insulate the coffee inside it, which would also allow for any expansion that may take place.

Can I assume that the liner will be stainless steel?

Also - I wonder if anyone on the metalworking forum fancies a go at designing / making a nice handle for it? - if it had wings it could be rivetted through to the inside, in four spots or maybe even a band?

Anyway let me know your thoughts and conclusions, no rush on this, as it sounds as though you have the same exacting standards I do (which is why some of my projects are running at 4 years and counting...!).

Rafe

 

[monkeybiter]

As far as heat transfer goes, if you are going to leave a small air gap - an idea that struck me was to use polystyrene beads to both insulate the wood AND a bonus would be to insulate the coffee inside it, which would also allow for any expansion that may take place.

I'm not going to pretend to being up to making something as nice as this, but my concern would definitely be expansion of the SS liner when hot putting pressure on the inside of the 'barrel', tending to split the joints. I would think a gap, loosely filled with exp.polystyrene as suggested, would be a sensible precaution.

Very nice work.

 

[ColeyS1]

The mug looks fantastic !!! Obviously the stainless insert looks the best, but I wonder if a plastic insert might be better suited...... for the heat concerns atleast. Only reason I say is my workmates mrs sometimes gives us hot drink in a freebie plastic mug. I've been caught out before cause the mugs felt fairly cold yet the contents have been scorching :shock:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[JustBen]

I have looked into getting plastic inserts but unfortunately the only ones I have found have rather large and ugly lids/surrounds.

The poly beads is a good idea but means that the inner is only held in by the glue around the rim.
It's food for though.

. I've been caught out before cause the mugs felt fairly cold yet the contents have been scorching :shock:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Small tester sips saves burning of the lips (it's even rhymes)

 

[rafezetter]

I have looked into getting plastic inserts but unfortunately the only ones I have found have rather large and ugly lids/surrounds.

The poly beads is a good idea but means that the inner is only held in by the glue around the rim.
It's food for though.

Squirty expanding foam? that's pretty damn sticky stuff

OR - just how badly does it NEED to stay attached? from the liner I saw it had a lip that technically you could turn the top of the mug to slip under, a reasonably tight fit, maybe a dab of silicone smeared around to reduce it just slipping out (and invariably onto your crotch); would then allow the liner to be thoroughly cleaned without fear.

 

[Droogs]

Hi Ben,
Nice mug.
With regard to the lining of your mug have you thought about spinning your own liner. You can see this being done on you tube video v=8OZ95yOTL5s
(I cant include the full link apparently)

Then you can custom design the lip to have an internal thread for a screw on lid and also create a a turned back lip that could have a thread chased into the back of it that the wooden outer could then be screwed to. You could then have to base as a screw on fit which would allow you to then insulate the gap between the liner and wooden outer with expanding foam that could then be trimmed once dried to remove the excess. The important thing about expanding foam of course is to remember that you only need a small amount to fill a fairly large area.