Secretaire campaign chest - now finished

[Peter Sefton]

Mark
You are right the hinges will look very neat and give a level internal surface when the flap is down ideal for your application.
Cheers Peter

 

[gasman]

Had a few hours this afternoon so got quite a bit done
I machined all the sapwood and leftover bits of the walnut I had used so far (I still have one board left) and then after much head-scratching, had enough just about after joining a couple of pieces to have enough wood for all the 5 drawers - here they are all roughly cut to size but thicknesses to 12mm

Here are the 4 pieces for the biggest drawer - which is 227mm deep

So I put them to one side then looked again at the carcass - and after sanding down and card-scraping the insides and those 7 frames, I glued it all up with TB3 - that's all my clamps!

This included a 'repair' I have had to do to a split in the right hand side-piece which I grain matched a small piece to fit

I have grain-matched a very small piece on the outside but I think it needs a bit more work
26 hours so far
Cheers
Mark

 

[xy mosian]

Gasman, Mark, It is all looking very good, and your rate of work is awesome. I would still be thinking about it.
I'm having a problem with your hinges, please try them out on scrap before cutting anything beyond rescue. Although they would look great, I have a sneaking suspicion that if the centre of the hinge pin is not on the same plane as the flap and shelf upper surface, the flap will open leaving a gap. This may not be a problem of course, but better forewarned.
Keep up the great work.
xy

 

[gasman]

Thanks XY for your comments and concerns. I also have concerns about these hinges - but figured that as they were not very expensive, if I am wrong they can just be added to the box of brass hinges, locks etc which I have and I am sure I will use them one day
These are the two pieces which will make up the fall front:

And this is how they will be when the drop down flap is closed

The problem is that if I just use any sort of normal hinge, there is not enough wood under the hinge to get a decent screw length in as follows

And as XY says, the hinge pivot has to be exactly at the point where the 2 'corners' of the flap pieces meet
There are also back flap hinges which at least have 3 screws with 2 further away which might work?
There are secretaire hinges which go along the side which I do not think will work
Anyone any better ideas?
Thanks
Mark

 

[Sailormantom]

Hi Mark. Fascinating WIP, thanks very much for taking the time. I saw these on the US Amazon site - not sure if they would do what you want but worth a look. http://www.amazon.com/Antique-Brass-Dro ... B003ZWNMWS

Cheers, Tom

 

[marcros]

could you cut the screw, and just use it for show, and epoxy the hinge in place on the problem side. Not traditional, I know, but...

 

[gasman]

Thanks Tom - but when the fall-front is open, the angle is 180 degrees not 90 so those quadrant hinges will not do it I do not think
Marcros - yes that is a possibility and I have done that many times for small boxes. The trouble is the fall front is a 19mm thick piece of solid walnut measuring 266 x 470 x 19 and I think it needs some really chunky hinges with decent screws biting in and, probably, a quadrant stay as well to make it strong enough
I also wondered about these secretaire hinges but I don't think I can attach them to the inside 'sides' of the cabinet

Thanks again and best wishes
Mark

 

[AndyT]

Just a quick thought to add another possibility - if you don't want to use the quadrant stays to share the weight of the flap, is it too late to suggest lopers? (Long bits of wood which pull out horizontally on either side, to support the flap.)
I think the American desk in your book might have them, behind those black curved parts - unless they are just fancy drawer pulls.
For added difficulty, I believe they can be made to emerge automatically as the flap is lowered, but I have no idea how!

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Mark, I see your problem, with the length of screw into the 'cabinet' piece. How about taking the hinges you have and countersinking them from the other face? A screw of the next gauge up might help.
xy

 

[Peter Sefton]

Mark
The usual hinge used in Secretaries is the Back Flap, when the hinges is fitted flush to the writing surface this gives the center point right between the flap and the table top. The timber is not cut at 45 degrees but as shown on page 267 fig 2 more of a zig zag at about 30 degrees.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6Maz ... ts&f=false
This means you don't have any feather edges that may be weak or liable to break over time, I have used this a few times over the years without any problems, the down side to this hinge is that half the knuckle is exposed above the writing surface although traditionally this would partially be disguised by the leather skiver as a writing surface with the knuckle cut through.
If no leather is to be used then you may be able to use the table hinge you have purchased but the center of pivot will be below the writing surface with the entire knuckle hidden, this will be very neat but may not work as the moving surfaces may bind. I would plot it out full size on thin card board (a cornflake packet) and cut it into the separate parts, lay them over another piece of card and use a pin to act as the center of pivot, move the parts and see where they bind, move the pin and try again until you get it working. It may not but you have only wasted cardboard and twenty minutes, not your Walnut. As I am sure you know hinging is all about the pivot point here is an article I wrote a couple of years ago it covers the Table hinge and how it works.
http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... hinges.pdf
Cheers Peter

 

[gasman]

Peter many thanks for your kind and helpful advice
I am still waiting for the table hinges - but I now know they are wrong and I will need to do something else - I will have a think and decide after they arrive - but for now, I parked the fall flap to one side and got on with some other stuff
The main cabinet looked fine when I unclamped it - so I tidied it up a little, planed the front flat and filled a couple of cracks and knot holes with a mixture of very fine walnut dust and thin CA glue - that looks fine I think
I then started on the top and bottom. I cut 5mm dominos in the mitred joints of the top and bottom to strengthen the mitre joints - I was very careful with the geometry in case I went through to the face side

The main cabinet will 'sit' in the top and bottom so I need to rebate the bottom of the top and the top of the bottom 5mm. I made this 7mm deep

Then the bottom has 1/4" plywood as a bottom (there is going to be a secret compartment in the bottom so this ply will be the bottom of it

Glued up the bottom - quite a rush to get it all glued up Ok and square but a rubber mallet was useful to tap the mitres home with the dominos quite a tight fit - then clamped up once it was all square

Out of clamps 2 hours later - looking OK I think

The top was similar - except that I am going to put this 'constructional veneer of quarter-matched crotch walnut on the top - so I used 9mm plywood for the floating panel but had this within 2mm of the upper surface - so the veneer will sit exactly in this 2mm gap - then clamped up the top - even more complicated as I had added 2 cross members to give the veneered top more stability

Here is the piece of crotch walnut I am going to but the veneers from:

- I gave my bandsaw a tune up with a file and carefully cut the veneers at about 3mm - but I planed the surface flat after each veneer was cut
Here are the 4 book-matched pieces

That just about finished me for the day - tidies up and sharpened my tools - about another 8 hours so I reckon 34 hours so far
Regards Mark

 

[Peter Sefton]

The matched top is going to look great :!:
Peter

 

[xy mosian]

This is very nearly as good as watching someone else work. Keep up the great work Mark.
xy

 

[Baldhead]

The matched top is going to look great :!:
Peter

+1

Really enjoying this WIP

Baldhead

 

[gasman]

Sneaked another hour and a half in tonight
The 3mm constructional veneers I passed through the home-made sander which worked fine but I think I need 80 grit rather than 120 as it took so long and so many passes - I'll add a photo later as its on my iPhone
Then I looked at how dry they were after a night in our kitchen (it has an Aga so is like an oven) - and the moisture meter said 8% so I reckon that's good to glue down

So I glued up one of them today - used PU glue (gloves) as it dries quickest and will expand into any gaps

Here's the second glued up and clamped

Then finished by slowly and carefully enlarging the width in the base to fit the carcass by enlarging the rebates on either side with an Axi 3-in-1 plane - using it effectively as a chisel plane- only about 0.25mm was necessary on each side

So here it is at the moment - with the top glued up I can fit both then most of the hard bits are down and it just a question of the drawers, the fall front (!) and the 'insides'. It is 36 hours or so - much longer than I thought but I think the remainder will speed up - suspect it will be 80 hours by the end though. Does this seem overly long?

Thanks again for all support
Mark

 

[AndyT]

I notice that you said you 'gave your bandsaw a tune-up with a file' before you cut the veneer. Could you tell us a bit more please? I didn't think anybody dared sharpen bandsaw blades!

 

[gasman]

Sure Andy - it is quite an old Tuffsaw blade, 3 tpi. So I got a very narrow round metal file - I think it is 5mm tapering to a point. Then with the blade still in the bandsaw I marked the blade at one point and then used the file to expose new metal in the gullet and on the face of each tooth. Each tooth alternates with the set so you have to angle each one a bit. As my bandsaw is 103 1/2" that means 310 teeth! Actually it only takes about 10 minutes as you getvthe hang of it quite quickly. I was dubious and tried it on some scrap first but it definitely improved things
Here's a reference - can't remember where I heard about it first
http://www.kmstools.com/blog/sharpening-bandsaw-blades/
HTH
Mark

 

[gasman]

Here's the home made sander - needs a bit of tuning I think

Showing the motor and the height adjuster - actually a 3/4" wood screw and handle

Cheers
Mark

 

[Peter Sefton]

I would say 80 hours all in is good and the sander looks interesting.
Cheers Peter

 

[gasman]

First disaster...
I glued up the last of the 4 quadrants in the top last night - and when I went out there at 5am (early riser sorry), one of the 4 quadrants is lower by about 1.5mm in one corner. It is going to be touch and go whether I can get it all flat and true without breaking through the veneer in one place. Not sure what to do. I have planed it all down by about 0.5 mm this morning and it is all beautiful apart from that one place. I can only think that one of the veneers must have been unevenly thinned in one corner when I passed it through the sander thicknesser. Hated machine wish I had never gone near it!
I have still got some veneer left over so could possibly rout out that piece and start again - will have another look when I get home from work tonight