Rust

[DTR]

Afternoon everyone,

This is more a vent of frustration than a cry for help. For three years my tools have been kept on open shelves in an unheated, uninsulated wooden shed without a hint of rust. Now that I've built a wooden chest to store them in, spots of rust are appearing with a vengeance. I just don't understand it.

For now I'm trying to be disciplined with the oily rag when I finish up for the day. Maybe a tub of silica crystals in the chest would help? (as long as I remember to close the tub while I'm working, no point in dehumidifying the planet's atmosphere...)

 

[carlb40]

Air flow - or lack of it. The chest will be emitting moisture. With a lid it needs to go somewhere, your tools will be the easiest option. Drop some bags of silica gel in there.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Pop a home brew heating mat / very low wattage incandescent light bulb into the chest and never suffer from condensation again

Assuming you have a power supply nearby.

Regards Mick

 

[DuncanA]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that dust can contribute to things rusting. If you've got a dusty tool chest it may help to give it a bit of a once over with the hoover, and make sure to brush off any wood dust left on tools etc.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Dust holds moisture which forms the rust, we try to keep our tools dust free and use ToolGuard VCI from Shield Technology in all our tool box's to keep the rust at bay.

 

[DTR]

Air flow - or lack of it. The chest will be emitting moisture. With a lid it needs to go somewhere, your tools will be the easiest option. Drop some bags of silica gel in there.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that dust can contribute to things rusting. If you've got a dusty tool chest it may help to give it a bit of a once over with the hoover, and make sure to brush off any wood dust left on tools etc.

The tool chest is less dusty than the shelves that the tools were on before. Lack of air circulation sounds right. I guess I'll go with the silica gel as it wouldn't be practical to plumb electrickery into the chest. Thanks chaps

 

[jimi43]

I had two No.7s and one was pristine and in a box and the other on the shelf. The one in the box rusted in a season...I took it out and caught it in time.

Never kept anything in a wooden box after that.

Jim

 

[hooch]

Silica gel bags are great I save them from whatever I can and pop them in all my tool box drawers

 

[JohnPW]

I've read on the forum tools kept in a wooden box don't get rusty. Would how airtight a box is make any difference?

 

[matthewwh]

In this context silica gel would be doing the same job as the dust - absorbing and desorbing moisture from the atmosphere. It only works as a single use dehumidifier in a small sealed space and must be drier than the ambient RH when the container is sealed. In theory, microwaving the silica gel each time you seal up your tools would work, but that's not a very practical solution.



Toolguard VCI pots work by releasing a vapour that stops the electrochemical conversion of iron into an oxide. Being a vapour it gets into all the nooks and crannies and there is no need to wipe anything on or off, just use your tools as normal and put them back in the box when you're finished.

 

[Jacob]

If you put them away in a dry cupboard/box whatever they should stay rust free, so maybe your box isn't dried out enough?
A small light bulb will do it - energy efficient or not makes no difference - all the energy ends up as heat. Or time alone will do it - eventually the box will be dry enough. Could you take it into the house to get warmed up and drier?
Matthews offering is an extremely expensive and unnecessary way of doing something very simple! All those Shield products are very pricey and easily avoided.
Advice to buy something, coming from a tool seller, should always be taken with a pinch of salt. They'll sell you the salt if you are a bit short but it'd be a lot cheaper from Aldi!

 

[Eric The Viking]

You need to dry out the chest before going any further. If theyre rusting now, the moisture content of the wood is high enough to do it, and you need to artificially lower it before returning to using it as storage.

Can you bring the chest indoors for a bit and let it stay with the lid open for a couple of weeks? After that, I'd seal the inside surfaces with something like sanding sealer (cellulose) and then do the lightbulb/silica gel thing.

I do use heating on my big tool drawers, but the planes still come inside over the winter. I've noticed spots of rust on my T11 in the router table, too. It'll be OK as I'm dealing with it (it's always left with the spindle/collet in an oily plastic bag and the table aperture covered), but now it's happened, I'll have to be more attentive in future.

Incidentally, the red cap from a WD40 aerosol is a perfect fit in the guide-bush hole in a router table plate! It sticks up, but otherwise it's a neat cover.

E.

 

[DTR]

The tool chest is at the same moisture content as the rest of the shed. Surely it will never be any drier unless I bring it into the house every night? (not going to happen)

 

[Harbo]

It's all down to the amount of moisture in the air and relative humidity.
Tools stored in dry environment should not rust - but how many of us can guarantee that ( except Jacob who doesn't have to do anything to his stuff)?
I keep my precious stuff in a metal tool cabinet with a low wattage tubular heater underneath, inspect them regularly and give them a wipe with oil now and then.
Cast iron I use a wax.
I noticed yesterday that my Marples square, sitting on my bench, was showing signs of rust through the bluing - something that has never happened before, but again we've had weeks of rain and the atmosphere is very damp. A quick wipe with oil seems to have cured that.

I inherited a lot of tools from my father whose shop was an unheated garage - most of them rusty, so perhaps I'm a bit paranoid about the issue.
But there's nothing worse than having tools spoiled by rust and a bit of care and effort it preventing it occurring is well worth the effort. Prevention is better than a Cure!

Rod

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Moisture can only condense out of the atmosphere onto something cooler - ergo, keeping your tooling at a slightly higher temperature, (by using low wattage heating), will prevent condensation 100%. In my opinion this is the easiest and most bullet proof method of keeping corrosion at bay.

Dehumidification, (using desiccants, silica gel for example), will reduce the humidity within the box and also significantly reduce the chance of condensation occurring - however every time the box is opened the desiccated air inside will be replaced to some degree with moist atmosphere from it's surroundings. Silica gel will need to be monitored for it's water content and dried out periodically.

Waxes, oils and 'potions' do not prevent condensation occurring but place a protective barrier between the steel and moisture - any void in this layer is an initiation point for corrosion.

Regards Mick

 

[Jacob]

......
Tools stored in dry environment should not rust - but how many of us can guarantee that ( except Jacob who doesn't have to do anything to his stuff)?.....

My stuff has been in a dry and draughty unheated ex chapel. I don't have rust problem except that weather thing when everything gets cold over night but then followed by a warmer and humid day. Then I get bits of condensation and the occasional haze of light rust on things left unattended and uncovered. But I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Hi

Moisture can only condense out of the atmosphere onto something cooler - ergo, keeping your tooling at a slightly higher temperature, (by using low wattage heating), will prevent condensation 100%. In my opinion this is the easiest and most bullet proof method of keeping corrosion at bay.

Dehumidification, (using desiccants, silica gel for example), will reduce the humidity within the box and also significantly reduce the chance of condensation occurring - however every time the box is opened the desiccated air inside will be replaced to some degree with moist atmosphere from it's surroundings. Silica gel will need to be monitored for it's water content and dried out periodically.

Waxes, oils and 'potions' do not prevent condensation occurring but place a protective barrier between the steel and moisture - any void in this layer is an initiation point for corrosion.

Regards Mick

Generally, I agree, but I think it's more than just the physical coating.

Some things, for example WD40, actually repel and drive off moisture. I don't know about Liberon wax. They also create their own vapour pressure close to the surface they're on, so that moisture can't easily reach that surface.

There's no doubt though that if the metal surface is warmer than the surrounding air, however moisture laden, condensation cannot occur, and therefore rust shouldn't form either. The concern is that warmer air, the air closest to the tools, also holds more moisture for a given volume. You don't want the warmer air to become damp and stay close to the tools, otherwise you negate the value of warming it up, as it will cause rust slightly faster than wet, cold air will. So if you warm it but don't let it circulate or dampen, that's good.

It's why I suggested warming/drying the tool chest first and then coating it - should prevent moisture wicking out to moisten the air within.

E.

 

[Racers]

Mots of my tools are in a unheated garage (attached to the house) and are coated with Briwax, which seems to work as the only rust I get is on uncoated tools.

Pete