Record CL1 Thread Protector stuck

[David in Spain]

Hi Everybody.

Finally retired and wanted to start turning on my old Record CL1 lathe. I bought it new many years ago ready for this time of my life. I find the the thread protector and a four prong centre are stuck on the spindle. I don´t want to bash it too much so wondered if anybody has any ideas? I am right in saying it comes off the spindle towards me?

I wondered if easier to take off the spindle and go to my local garage and see if my mechanic can help? Is this easy to do?

Complete novice at all this so bear with me.

Thanks to all

David

 

[stewart]

Hi David

there should be a flat on the spindle inside the head casing that you can grip with a spanner and then a metal rod to put in a hole on the thread protector and undo it...

 

[selectortone]

I had this happen occasionally when I had a CL-1.

Yes, the thread protector unscrews towards you, ie anti-clockwise in the normal way of a r/h thread.

You need a 1" spanner to hold the spindle. The spindle has flats for this purpose on the outside of the casing just in front of the bearing. And you will need a small diameter bar (I used the bar that forms the handle of the chuck spanner for my Jacobs chuck which happens to be just the right diameter) to engage in the hole in the edge of the thread protector.

Using the 1" spanner to prevent the spindle rotating, insert a bar into the hole in the thread protector and unscrew it. You might need to give the bar a tap with a mallet to get it started. You can use the toolrest to rest the 1" spanner on while you do this (otherwise you need three hands!).

If you need to remove the spindle you will need to use a drift (a brass bar is what I used) to knock the spindle out through the front of the headstock. If you do remove the spindle you might consider changing the bearings while it's convenient to do so.

Good luck. I had a LOT of use and much enjoyment out of my old CL-1.

.

 

[David in Spain]

Many many thanks. I did try this but it seems really stuck. The bar bent , I have tried mole grips as well but seems really stick. I have just poured a load of penetrating oil on everywhere and will try again tomorrow.

Un saludo from Rainy Spain.

 

[Wildman]

you could pack ice in bags around the prong to shrink it then it will tap out. Failing that make a coffer around the lot and fill with vineger leave 48 hours then try tapping it out again. If a spanner and bar will not shift the nose protector plenty of penetrating oil and then you may have to resort to a drift and tap it smartly supporting the arbor at the same time with a jack or wedge s as not to bend it. A "C" spanner is of course the right tool for the job.

 

[Dalboy]

Gently heat the protector and then add some more releasing agent and get that moving first, then worry about the drive centre. As stated the two flats on the shaft can either be just behind the protector or inside next to the pulleys. make sure that the bar you use is a good fit into the protector otherwise you will damage the hole making it hard to undo in the furure.

 

[CHJ]

Sharp forceful taps on the protector nut are more likely to break the seal/joint than steady pressure, a well fitting C spanner and a metal hammer to provide the tap should work best but if you don't have a C spanner then if the metal rod does not fit well in the C spanner hole or keeps slipping out try using a brass or aluminium punch tangently on the hole.

 

[Lons]

Happened a couple of times on my old lathe and as said, spanner and gentle tapping. I'm sure it was the centre that got stuck rather than the thread protector.

I was in Moraira for a couple of weeks in September - wasn't raining then. If I'd known I could have called and said hello

Bob

 

[David in Spain]

Hola Amigos

Many thanks for such prompt replies. I now have the spindle removed amd soaking in vinegar. That was a bit of a beggar as there were two grub screws on the pulleys. I thought I was home and dry when I took the first one out but I couldn´t shift it. After more research I found the first one was locking another underneath.

I am minded it is the centre that is stuck so will see how we go on after an overnight soak.

Thanks again.

David

David

 

[David in Spain]

Hola Amigos

The ovenight soak seemed to work. With the spindle off I was able to hold the four prong centre in a vice and tap it free with a C spanner. I then put the C Spanner in a vice and used a pair of mole grips on the drive protector and tapped it loose. Now all cleaned, all necessary parts oiled and refiited. Seems to working fine. If only I had known of the double grub screws. Is this standard practice?

Thanks to all for the help and advice.

Felices fiestas

David

 

[CHJ]

...... If only I had known of the double grub screws. Is this standard practice?
......

I don't know about 'standard practice' but it's certainly 'Best Practice' where it is undesirable to apply a locking media to a securing or retention screw.

 

[selectortone]

...If only I had known of the double grub screws. Is this standard practice?

That's a rite of passage with Record lathes I'm afraid. Most people scratch their heads the first time they try to remove a pulley. Yes, it's good practice but a little sticker on the pulley informing us mere mortals of the presence of two grub screws would prevent a lot of frustration. #-o

 

[David in Spain]

Hola Amigos

All released . but I note that the lathe seems a bit noisier. I wondered if I hadn´t just put the bearings back in correctly so will have another go . I don´t think the bearings were damaged . Any thoughts?

I also have a RP3000x Power Chuck set. I have just fettled all the kit. I have lost the instructions and am a bit lost with all the bits. I bought it new 20 years ago and think I added extras and not sure what goes with what. In the old days I would have gone back to the shop and would have been sorted in a breath. I have fond memories of Tabwell Tools where I bought most of my stuff. The chain of shops was owned by Record, I think. They had a tie up with Electra Beckum as well as Record sold all their Table, Band and Chop Saws.There used to be a link to Record Power´s Site for the Manual but that´s gone. I have asked RP if they have a copy but if anybody out there can help, that would be grand.

Thanks again for all the tips and help.

David

 

[Lons]

Probably sealed for life bearings but if not you've likely washed the grease out.

 

[David in Spain]

Many thanks.
You are probably right. The spindle was stuck this morning but soon loosened. The big bearing does sound dry so sprayed it with 3 in 1 and still sounds dry so I really drenched it with oil and see what happens. Not sure if this will work but haven´t a clue what to do . New bearing?

 

[Dalboy]

Many thanks.
You are probably right. The spindle was stuck this morning but soon loosened. The big bearing does sound dry so sprayed it with 3 in 1 and still sounds dry so I really drenched it with oil and see what happens. Not sure if this will work but haven´t a clue what to do . New bearing?

For the price of new bearings it pays to change them especially if the machine is getting on a bit.

 

[Lons]

Weren't the old CL1 bearings adjustable? Or at least the front one.

I'm sure someone will have a copy of the manual if you don't or Record Power will help if you contact them with your serial number

Bob

 

[CHJ]

The spindle was stuck this morning but soon loosened.

That sounds very ominous, be very cautious spinning a tight bearing that has 'stuck'
If it's a normal ball bearing race then it could indicate that the bearing was devoid of lubrication and rust may have formed in the race, this will need replacing as it will only deteriorate rather quickly if the races or balls are pitted with oxide.
If it was a plain tapered phosphor bronze bearing spinning it up without adequate oil film can cause the bearing surface to scald and make things less than perfect for future correct adjustment and lubrication.