question for those who sell work/do any freelance jobs

[hazel]

I am not very good at the whole asking for money and such side of things. I am not too bad when it comes to stuff I've made being sold as I have worked out a formula for that, but I am useless when it comes to other work... I have laid a fair bit of decking recently but with that the person offered a set amount on asking for the work. I have now been asked for a quote though and I have no idea how much to say or how to ask for it lol

any advise?


the current one is to put up a curtain rail, but need to work out how to do this in general and not just for this one job lol (also this job sort of adds to my needing to buy a drill thing )

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

You need to work out your day rate. This needs to be a figure that will cover your overheads, cover your home bills and gives you some extra for you so its worth it. With that you divide it by 8 and that's your hourly rate. To put up a curtain pole if local I would charge £10 call out plus an hour labour min.

Start taking note how long things are taking you to complete or how long it takes to lay a square metre of something. With this it will be easier to work out how much and how long.

 

[MARK.B.]

You do all the work Hazel and i will look after all your money worries :mrgreen:

Seriously the above post from Hudson Carpentry gives you what you need to know

 

[hazel]

thanks.

I think I just get scared about loosing out on work or whatever by saying the wrong price, and I guess I'm still not as confident as maybe I should be in my abilities and as still a trainee feel I should have really really low quotes but don't want to go too low... and... as I have never hired anyone to do these things (as always done it myself) not sure what "normal" rates are lol

I shall have a think, and maybe do some research into how much people charge on average and go from there. Keeping a log of how long jobs take on average is a good idea, I will start doing that

 

[doctor Bob]

if you are getting paid to work in peoples houses you really should have liability insurance as well.
Maybe you do.
But if you don't and say you hit a water pipe whilst drilling a wall and flood the property then it could be very expensive for both you and the home owner

 

[mailee]

This site may be of help to you: http://www.buildingsheriff.com/ I used it when I started out and it did help. :wink:

 

[Matt@]

dont get too bogged down in how many hours x your rate = the charge. Its vital of course to have a charging structure in place but what matters most is "what are people happy to pay" and "what is the going rate" (both of these can be surprisingly different) as is it these that will usually define what you will get paid. Sometimes using this calculation will result in more money for a job than if you worked your charges based on your usual charging formula.

Sometimes there are other factors involved in jobs eg will it lead realistically to recommendations and is the job free of hassle. At the end of the day bills need to be paid so money needs to come in. Sometimes its just nice to do a hassle free job a bit cheap and get some money in. The worst job in the world is one thats cheap for wall to wall agro for a tightfisted client who wouldnt be recommending you!

 

[RossJarvis]

I think the confidence issue is a very difficult thing to deal with. Essentially you need to charge what you are worth and make a living. If you are rubbish you aren't worth much, but many people make a living out of being dung. Many people are really good at what they do and make little. There is no magic system that sorts this out for you. You need to sit down and work out at least what you need to live on. Build in things like insurance, overheads (e.g. capital costs, tools, maintenance, petrol etc) think about unpaid for work such as time for quotes and no-work times. But ultimately you need to believe that what you do is good and worth being paid for. This can be quite a difficult psychological barrier to break and may need some time to work at itself. I think "good" workers tend to agonise over this and undersell themselves whereas poor or mediocre workers never worry about this. You also need to become toughened to the fact that many customers really don't care and just want perfection at zero cost. I've heard it said that rich customers are never satisfied and poor ones will give you their last teabag. Unfortunately the poor ones will not be able to pay top-dollar and the ones who can afford it will try not to.

Plenty of people have suggested I go into business butchering wood, but I'd much rather butcher wood for love and haven't the faintest idea how to charge for it.

 

[petermillard]

Lots of sound advice here. One thing you could do is take the direct route and phone up a handyman (handy person??) in your area and ask them what they'd charge to fit a curtain track? Obviously there are a limit to the number of times you can do this, but it'll give you an idea of what others are charging where you are.

I started out doing handyman type work all those years ago, and pricing up the work was one of the hardest things - you want the work, but you don't want to sell yourself too cheaply; if you're doing this of a living, then you have to be able to make a living out of it. If it helps, I have a 'Cost of doing Business' spreadsheet that let's you figure out a day-rate for yourself; p.m. me if you want a copy.

As a rule I do very little work on an hourly rate - it turns you (and the customer) into a clock-watcher - though if you're doing small jobs then it's unavoidable when you're starting out, as you simply don't know enough to charge flat fees. One thing I did learn though! is that customers generally hate 'call-out' fees, so I simply incorporated it into a higher rate for the first hour, followed by a lower hourly rate billed in 30minute slots.

And remember that people are people - there's good and bad everywhere, but if you treat people decently and do a tidy job, my experience is that you'll have a happy customer, who's happy to recommend you.

Let us know how it works out.

Cheers, Pete

 

[Myfordman]

Additionally, I would say once quoted, don't knock anything off the price unless the work content/materials cost changes significantly.

People will come to expect it of you next time.

OK you might lose the odd job now and then and you can factor that in next time you quote. Also if your price is lower than the customer expects you can use that to adjust upwards on the next job a bit.
Make sure you cover all your costs and allow a bit extra for unforseen problems. If the job goes to plan and the customers wants a little extra then you can do that 'free' at your discretion.

I would avoid getting lured into providing a breakdown of your price - often this can get turned round on you and never to your advantage IME!

Good luck

 

[marcros]

dont forget glue, screws, sandpaper. It is easy to forget and not charge for that handful here and there, a bit of glue, a quick sand, but if you kept a note and looked back after 12 months, the value would scare you!

 

[hazel]

thanks for all the replies. liability insurance is something I lack right now, mainly due tot he cost, and I know in the long run it's better to have it as the cost of something going wrong is far more but currently I have literally no income over than what I get for these jobs which as I am not getting many is only just about covering rent... Seriously if any of you ever end up on JSA do NOT tell the advicer what you think of the "system" even if they have kept you waiting for over 2 hours all that happens is you get sanctioned lol

I think the confidence issue is the big one here... I have openly stated on my advert that I am only a trainee joiner, so that I don't feel like I am cheating anyone, but still can't help but worry as I guess when you are being paid for work you want it to be essentially perfect... and I have a bit of a perfection issue as it is, my tutor at college keeps getting annoyed with me as I will do an assignment and it will be at pass level but I will do it again and again as I am not happy with it lol, though this does also mean I have never gotten less than 90% for a marked peice so not all bad I guess...


I am trying to avoid the hourly charge route as people seem to prefer flat fees and as said I dislike the whole clock watching thing that hourly pay can cause. But on the other hand as so far all I have done is layed some decking, replaced some windows, and laid some floorboards I am unsure how long other jobs take... Also just realised there is no way I can afford to buy a drill anytime soon, so if I do get this bit of work I am going to have to borrow one

 

[MMUK]

I've got a spare 240v drill you'd be welcome to if it's of any use. The hammer action doesn't work though so I've glued the selector in place. It's a JCB 1050w one and it's good and powerful. IIRC, it only cost me about £15 trade a few years ago and I've hardly used it. I may be over in Keighley on Monday so could chuck it in the van (assuming you're in that part of Yorkshire).

 

[Richard S]

Hazel,
Do yourself a favour and get some public liability insurance now. It think you may be under estimating the consequences of something going wrong as a result of your work. A small amount of material damage can usually be sorted out one way or another but what would happen if someone was seriously injured as a result of your work. You mentioned decking, what if you made a mistake and the deck collapsed breaking someone's leg? Even if you where to be subsequently exonerated you would still need to defend the claim. Sort it now! I think I pay around 15 per month on a self employed sole trader basis from Direct Line so it is affordable, and highly irresponsible not to.

Richard

 

[hazel]

I literally cannot afford insurance right now... the money I have coming in just about covered rent, struggling with bills and such let alone another thing on top... I am fully aware of the concequences of not having it and something going wrong, but I cannot afford to pay it :/ been looking into ways to find the money but not found anything yet

I will borrow my boyfriends drill I think, he has a decent one thanks though

 

[hazel]

the second I can afford it though I will be getting liability insurance... like litterally that same second, I don't want to go longer than I have to without it

 

[joethedrummer]

I literally cannot afford insurance right now... the money I have coming in just about covered rent, struggling with bills and such let alone another thing on top... I am fully aware of the concequences of not having it and something going wrong, but I cannot afford to pay it :/ been looking into ways to find the money but not found anything yet

I will borrow my boyfriends drill I think, he has a decent one thanks though

See if he will lend you the money for public liability as well,,, I wouldn"t want you to accidently drill a hole thro" a water pipe in my house,,

 

[Jinx]

Hazel I was on a persons work surface doing a window job from the inside, I stepped down and in the mean time the woman of the house had opened her dishwasher door behind me and I stepped on it and broke it! She was apologetic and so was I but it still needed to be paid for and she said, we can just claim from your insurance - I didn't tell her but I didn't have any and had to pay her myself without her knowing. It cost me £75.00 to fix (this was 20 years ago) and I then got insured and it cost me £75.00 - that is why I remember the price as it was exactly the same but the anguish it caused at the time as I had no money was horrible - its hard but you do need the insurance. Jinx

 

[hazel]

I know £15 or a month doesn't sound like much, but the only income I have is from these jobs, which means that last week - for example, my entire income was about £20... from which I need to buy food, and pay council tax, and bills, and next week there is rent... luckily my boyfriend is still employed or we would be in serious trouble right now...

I used to own my own photography business so certainly know how important insureance is, but I need to be able to afford to live too. Hopefully I won't be having to do this for long and someone will employ me, but for now I am a little stuck really

 

[MMUK]

My PLI renewal last year was only £92 with £5M indemnity. I got it through this site.

http://www.constructaquote.com/PPC-Liab ... tAodTigAxA

If you opt for a lower indemnity (I imagine £1M will be plenty for the work you are doing), then premiums can be as little as £40 per year.