P/T Spiral Cutter Block

[deema]

Have you thought about a Sedgwick? New they are priced, but there are a lot of really good secondhand. Shares are not an issue as Sedgwick are still in operation. They are built like tanks at a really high quality and will I'm sure last many lifetimes. I'm biased, a number of my machines are Sedgwick that I bought secondhand.

 

[PeteG]

Have you thought about a Sedgwick? New they are priced, but there are a lot of really good secondhand. Shares are not an issue as Sedgwick are still in operation. They are built like tanks at a really high quality and will I'm sure last many lifetimes. I'm biased, a number of my machines are Sedgwick that I bought secondhand.

I have Deema and looked at a used almost new Sedgewick 10 x 7 240 volt last night, £1600 plus vat. I'm not sure this heavy style of machine will fit through the door to the workshop, I had a standard front door fitted. Or I'll be able to move them around with ease, saying that the Sedgewick is only 20 kilo more than the Startrite. The other thought I have is how much it'll stand away from the wall with the size if that bar on the fence, it looks huge!

 

[Wizard9999]

Pete

Just noticed this on the Scott & Sargeant website:

http://scosarg.com/startrite-sd31-12x8- ... nesser-1ph

Don't get too excited, you have to add VAT, but even then it is still about £150 less than buying on the Record Power website.

Terry.

 

[deema]

The performance of a PT is determined by how stable and accurately the tables are kept in alignment with each other. Mass is good for this, big thick castings for stability are better than sheet material. All of the older machines have a cast frame that encloses the thicknesser and supports the tables. This does create a fair deal of weight. However, the weight also helps to keep down any vibration which affects the finish.

There are three ways I've seen for moving around heavy machines, two of which I've used myself.

1, some form of platform that's on lockable casters. To size the castors, the weight of the machine should be less that 3/4 of the total weight the castors can hold. Upside is that it's easy to move, downside is that the machine is not on a very stable platform. Increased vibration and the frame of the machine is subject to varying loads which will cause the beds to move slightly. Used this method initially

2. Mount the machine on steel or wood type pallets and use a pump truck - what I now use. Upside, far more stable, reduced variable pressure through the machine frame when it's moved.

3. Mount the machine on a plate of steel with a skirt (there is a clip on uTube of a system that was the inspiration for the system I saw...Sorry can't find the link) with a hole for a blower to be attached to create a hovercraft lift system. Seen it done, simple very cheap, very stable and very easy to move the machines around. Must however be on a flat floor. A system I will look at next time I buy a machine.

 

[PeteG]

Pete

Just noticed this on the Scott & Sargeant website:

http://scosarg.com/startrite-sd31-12x8- ... nesser-1ph

Don't get too excited, you have to add VAT, but even then it is still about £150 less than buying on the Record Power website.

Terry.

That must be a recent price change Terry, sure it was still £1699 yesterday. I'm leaving my options open at the moment, if it'll fit in the shed,
it might be worth saving a little longer and going for a used Sedgwick.

 

[siggy_7]

There are three ways I've seen for moving around heavy machines, two of which I've used myself.

1, some form of platform that's on lockable casters. To size the castors, the weight of the machine should be less that 3/4 of the total weight the castors can hold. Upside is that it's easy to move, downside is that the machine is not on a very stable platform. Increased vibration and the frame of the machine is subject to varying loads which will cause the beds to move slightly. Used this method initially

This is the method I use and it works very well if you have a smooth floor (although any movement of heavy loads on a rough floor will struggle unless you have pneumatic tyres). To improve the stability, I have the castors on a simple cam mechanism that lifts the machine off the floor for moving, then when I have finished moving I drop it back down onto some adjustable levelling feet which if you place them at the corners of the machine base makes it every bit as stable as just resting the machine on the floor. Bob (9fingers) did a really good post on this a while back which I used as inspiration.

 

[Wizard9999]

Pete

Just noticed this on the Scott & Sargeant website:

http://scosarg.com/startrite-sd31-12x8- ... nesser-1ph

Don't get too excited, you have to add VAT, but even then it is still about £150 less than buying on the Record Power website.

Terry.

That must be a recent price change Terry, sure it was still £1699 yesterday. I'm leaving my options open at the moment, if it'll fit in the shed,
it might be worth saving a little longer and going for a used Sedgwick.

Pete

Not sure where you are on a new PT buying front but thought I would share some new info. I went to the D&M show last October and saw the new Startrite SD31 with the jockey wheels and digital read out for what seemed a very good price of £1,459, i.e. £240 off the online "winter special" price. They have just confirmed to me that the show prices will be the same as the D&M show until March 31st this year. So I have now decided I am going to go for the SD31 at the next show close to me, as the price is virtually the same as the smaller Jet model.

Any way, thought you may appreciate knowing.

Terry.

 

[PeteG]

Hello Terry and apologies for the late reply I had decided to save up for a Sedgwick but a couple of things have come up at home
so after a lot of consideration I'm going with the Jet JPT 260.
That is a good deal on the SD31 but the D&M show is too far away for me, but I see tonight they are offering the SD300 for £1299.
Saying that, from reading a past thread on the SD300 blade changing seems to be a bit if task.

Appreciate the help Terry

 

[Wizard9999]

?..so after a lot of consideration I'm going with the Jet JPT 260.

Before Christmas Axminster were throwing in a wheel kit and the digital thicknesser, not sure if you will have any luck but even though the offer has finished now it may be worth pushing them to see if they will still do that.

That is a good deal on the SD31 but the D&M show is too far away for me, but I see tonight they are offering the SD300 for £1299.

It is actually any show Record Power go to, but I see before Mrch 1st they are going no further north than Bury St Edmunds, so no much more help for you. Haven't seen the £1,299 offer, on the RP website they still seem to be selling the SD300 for more than the SD31.

Looking forward to hearing how you find the Jet when you get it. I think I'll be off to one of the RP shows nearer me in February for the SD31, but I'll make a point at getting them to take me through blade changes before I sign on the dotted line.

Terry.

 

[custard]

There's an interesting discussion on the Felder User Forum about spiral blocks, quite a few spiral blocks are coming into real life workshops now, so they're getting some genuine operational experience. The key trade-off seems to be spiral blocks give a cleaner cut on figured/difficult grain timbers (but on regular grained timbers the cut is neither better nor worse), what you're giving up however is depth of cut. I'd never really thought about that before and indeed it's not really relevant for furniture makers who will seldom if ever want to take more than 2 or 3mm off on a single pass, but it is relevant for some joinery workshops. Furthermore, those workshops that are all about munching through a board in the shortest possible time don't even like Tersa/disposable knives for the same reason. I do recall being in a joinery workshop and watching in astonishment as they were taking 6mm off solid oak in a single pass and thinking nothing of it!

Hasn't changed my own thinking though, I don't usually hanker after the latest and greatest but I certainly wish my P/T had a Felder spiral block!

 

[PeteG]

Here's the offer on the SD300 Terry http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php?fullsite=y&section=6325&sn=STESD300#.Vp9guy-zCFw Plus you get £20.00 back in loyalty points...

Sadly living in Manchester is the back of beyond when it comes to tool shops and shows, Axminster in Warrington is the nearest for anything decent, I think the nearest show is in York, and when I bought the Record P/T I had to go over to Chester. Appreciate some folk would have to travel further but for a city of this size!

I'll see if I can get the digital readout thrown in, not bothered about the base, I find that style awkward in a small space and prefer castors on all corners.

There's an interesting discussion on the Felder User Forum about spiral blocks, quite a few spiral blocks are coming into real life workshops now, so they're getting some genuine operational experience. The key trade-off seems to be spiral blocks give a cleaner cut on figured/difficult grain timbers (but on regular grained timbers the cut is neither better nor worse), what you're giving up however is depth of cut. I'd never really thought about that before and indeed it's not really relevant for furniture makers who will seldom if ever want to take more than 2 or 3mm off on a single pass, but it is relevant for some joinery workshops. Furthermore, those workshops that are all about munching through a board in the shortest possible time don't even like Tersa/disposable knives for the same reason. I do recall being in a joinery workshop and watching in astonishment as they were taking 6mm off solid oak in a single pass and thinking nothing of it!

Hasn't changed my own thinking though, I don't usually hanker after the latest and greatest but I certainly wish my P/T had a Felder spiral block!

After a good think I realised I probably wouldn't be using much figured timber so couldn't justify the cost of a spiral cutter, or as things have turned out afford one either. I contacted Hammer about their A3-26 with easy change blades but at a similar price to the Sedgwick, I'd have preferred the Sedgwick. I was surprised that you can't have the Tersa system open on the Sedgwick PT, I was told it was too small, that wouldn't have been perfect fund allowing. 6 mm seems a lot to take off in a single pass Custard, I doubt my little chip extractor could cope. What was the finish like?

 

[custard]

6 mm seems a lot to take off in a single pass Custard, I doubt my little chip extractor could cope. What was the finish like?

Good enough for joinery work, they said they sometimes take up to 10mm off in a single pass but I didn't see that. I have seen Oak timber framers take massively deep cuts with huge, hand held planers when the client's specified a planed finish. But that's with Oak that's pretty wet, well above 30% MC, wood becomes like a totally different material at those moisture levels so different rules apply.

 

[Wizard9999]

Just to finalise Pete I pushed the button on an SD31 today. I went to John Davis Woodturning where RP are having a "show" today as it is only about 30 miles from me. Not sure what the show constituted it more seemed to be a chap from RP being on hand to answer questions, nothing like the D&M show where they hire a pretty sizeable venue. However, no matter, as RP had confirmed on their enquiry system they honoured the same deal as I would have had at the D&M event. So I have ordered a new SD31 "launch package", which means it comes with the jockey wheel kit and digital readout, delivered to my home for £1460. If I had bought it on the RP website it would have been £1700 plus £60 delivery, so a very decent saving of £300 - jolly glad I hung on to the RP flyer from the D&M Show .

As an aside, I am not a turner so have never made the trip to John Davis before, but what a thoroughly decent chap he is! As indeed was Peter from RP.

Terry.

 

[Adam9453]

Its certainly made interesting reading this thread, I agonised for ages over which PT to buy. It was the ease of blade changes that sold me on the hammer A3 31 (bought secondhand) with 3 knife tersa block.
I don't enjoy setting up machines, I prefer using machines so anything that made setting up easier and quicker gets my vote and my money.
It has probably cost me about the same as you guys are paying for a new planer thicknesser once you take into account the inverter etc. but i'm afraid I wouldn't buy a PT with a traditional cutter block, too much faff changing the blades.

 

[Wizard9999]

Yes Adam, don't blame you one bit. If I had found a decent second hand Hammer I may well have gone down that route, but I always found they were either at the other end of the country, or a price well above the Startrite by the time I had hired a van to move it in / allowed for inverter if 3 phase, or most often both of the above. I have to say, I have also convinced myself that I am so non-mechanical that even the slightest problem with a second hand one would give me real issues. So for me, on a balance a new machine was the better option.

Terry.

 

[scosarg]

These types of blocks work really we'll on larger diameter planer cutter blocks. (120/125) ..they reduce power requirement and are quieter , great on laminated boards and really hardwoods. They are not quite as good on softwoods. The other thing you need to be aware of is getting the knives to seat cleanly or you can end up with shadows. Some cutter blocks use a more expensive radiuses tungsten tops to get over this issue.
I would suggest ask for a reference fro. Someone who has had one and changed the knives a couple of times in order to ascertain how good this particular design works as it will have been made in china or taiwan and the quality can vary.

 

[PeteG]

Just to finalise Pete I pushed the button on an SD31 today. I went to John Davis Woodturning where RP are having a "show" today as it is only about 30 miles from me. Not sure what the show constituted it more seemed to be a chap from RP being on hand to answer questions, nothing like the D&M show where they hire a pretty sizeable venue. However, no matter, as RP had confirmed on their enquiry system they honoured the same deal as I would have had at the D&M event. So I have ordered a new SD31 "launch package", which means it comes with the jockey wheel kit and digital readout, delivered to my home for £1460. If I had bought it on the RP website it would have been £1700 plus £60 delivery, so a very decent saving of £300 - jolly glad I hung on to the RP flyer from the D&M Show .

As an aside, I am not a turner so have never made the trip to John Davis before, but what a thoroughly decent chap he is! As indeed was Peter from RP.

Terry.

Glad the search is over Terry and you certainly got a good discount. My Jet is being delivered this Tuesday and all going well with the electrics on Monday, I'll be ready
to go. I made a new base last week based on Peter Parfitt's design, I've used 75 mm castors and the inch thick birch ply base has about 12 mm ground clearance.

Its certainly made interesting reading this thread, I agonised for ages over which PT to buy. It was the ease of blade changes that sold me on the hammer A3 31 (bought secondhand) with 3 knife tersa block.
I don't enjoy setting up machines, I prefer using machines so anything that made setting up easier and quicker gets my vote and my money.
It has probably cost me about the same as you guys are paying for a new planer thicknesser once you take into account the inverter etc. but i'm afraid I wouldn't buy a PT with a traditional cutter block, too much faff changing the blades.

Hello Adam I've never found it an easy choice when it comes to P/T's. I was offered an Autumn discount on the Hammer/Felder A3-26, the discount was £30.00.
I really wanted a Sedgwick PT but didn't really know how I would cope with it's weight moving it around the shed, as it turned out a couple of things happened at home which put the Sedgwick out of reach. I did for a while plan to buy the Startrite SD31, but after reading an old thread on the SD300 blade changing, wondered if the SD31 would be the same. The more I read the more the SD31 seemed to be very similar to the Jet PT260, but cost quite a few hundred more. Taking everything in to account and a very tight budget, the Jet seemed the only option.

 

[Wizard9999]

Pete, hope you are happy with the Jet, I watched the Peter Parfitt review and he was certainly very happy. I am also thinking about a mobile base like Peter Parfitt's but I'll probably give the jockey wheels that are part of the package deal a go first.

Interestingly the guy from RP said unprompted that the Jets are very similar machines and he didn't disagree when I suggested that maybe they came from the same factory.

I hear what you are saying re blade changes, it does not sound anywhere near as easy as the Hammer say. I'll report back when I have the machine.

Terry.