Need some advise! Purchased a hardwood door, what next?

[manbearpig]

Ive bought the door and surround pictured below. Its made out of Sapele but it isn't finished.

I want to do the following:

1. Change the opening from inwards to outwards
2. Double glaze the window openings


I am going to have to employ a joiner to do the work. Should I get the windows ordered first, or should I let the joiner do that?

How much should the glazed units cost? (can anyone recommend a good glazing company)
And how much would you charge to reverse the opening of the door and fit the glazed units? (If anyone is in Nottingham and interested in doing this please let me know)


I plan to varnish it myself. Can anyone recommend a good outdoor varnish? I was thinking about using Dulux trade naked wood, but then I looked at the cost :shock:

Should I preserve and varnish the door first, or get the glazing work done first?


Thanks for any advise you can give me!

http://i37.tinypic.com/28hzb15.jpg

i37.tinypic.com/28hzb15.jpg

 

[Blister]

Hi

You have to make several posts before you can upload photos , its a spam trap

:wink:

 

[DaveL]

Hi manbearpig,

Welcome to the forum.
As Blister said your picture has been caught by our spam trap, here it is:

You need the img tags for the picture to display inline.

 

[joesoap]

Hi MPG
Not a very practical idea you have there . If the door checks were planted ie nailed say on to the jambs then they could be altered but , the frame is run for one way entry . Were it an interior door , no problem but that obviously is not the case . For the door itsellf it would be a case of removing the mortise lock and turning the bolts and the letter plate .
However get your joiner if you know one , or maybe one or two and get advice on site .I say one or two as some chancer might by having a go leave you with a problem like no door and no recompense .
Whatever , do not touch a thing as you may want to return it for a swop . Gook luck with it Cheers !

 

[manbearpig]

Hi MPG
Not a very practical idea you have there . If the door checks were planted ie nailed say on to the jambs then they could be altered but , the frame is run for one way entry . Were it an interior door , no problem but that obviously is not the case . For the door itsellf it would be a case of removing the mortise lock and turning the bolts and the letter plate .
However get your joiner if you know one , or maybe one or two and get advice on site .I say one or two as some chancer might by having a go leave you with a problem like no door and no recompense .
Whatever , do not touch a thing as you may want to return it for a swop . Gook luck with it Cheers !

Thanks for the reply. The only reason I bought it was because it only cost £160. Ive had quotes for a new front door for over £800, so I though it may be a way to get a cheap hardwood door, but it seems that it may not happen!

I'm not sure what you mean about the door bolts and letter plate. I would like the opening to remain be on the left, but go in the opposite direction. I think I understand what you mean about the door checks, I did think it may be a problem, but I assumed the door frame wouldn't have been built to open inwards (bad assumption!)...

 

[crazylilting]

From what i understand...

You want the door to swing the same way but on the outside instead of the inside?

All you would need to do is Route out the outside of the jam to fit it in and then get some more sapele to make a door stop on the inside which will cover up the hinges and the striker plate.

The new wood would also need to be grooved for weather strip and laminated well to the frame but it isn't undoable. I have no idea what someone would charge but what ever it is it is worth it, you saved a bundle on the door. A mans labour is his labour and if you want a good job you will have to pay a good wage. I don't know where you got this door, but i bet it is a veneered door, not solid, and it's joinery isn't that of a door you would of paid £800 for.

Your already complaining about the cost of the finish so i'll just tell you straight. You get what you pay for and if you don't value good work your door will look like rubbish when it is done, plain and simple.

 

[Mattty]

Hi MPG
Not a very practical idea you have there . If the door checks were planted ie nailed say on to the jambs then they could be altered but , the frame is run for one way entry . Were it an interior door , no problem but that obviously is not the case . For the door itsellf it would be a case of removing the mortise lock and turning the bolts and the letter plate .
However get your joiner if you know one , or maybe one or two and get advice on site .I say one or two as some chancer might by having a go leave you with a problem like no door and no recompense .
Whatever , do not touch a thing as you may want to return it for a swop . Gook luck with it Cheers !

I disagree it is 'dooable'. IMO

Firstly the cill/threshold needs removing and turning through 180, so the cill side is on the outside.

The wooden weather bar will need putting on the other side and it is possible the frame has a thin metal bar type threshold set into the cill section. This type-

If so this will need removing (so the door swings) and replacing with something similar to this type-

There may be issue with the panel beadings which will now be external not being designed for the rain to run off so these may need changing. Thats about it though i think . Not that much work and a good product.

HTH

 

[crazylilting]

Oh one more thing. Make sure you buy the best finish you can afford and put it on in very thin coats, lightly sanding in between. Four coats would be best. Reason being if it is a veneer you want the best chance for it's survival as possible. When you put one coat there are little wood fibers that stand out in which water can penetrate. The more coats the less wood fibers will come through the finish. But if you put thick coats it looks like rubbish.

I would not take the sil plate off and turn it around as the outside is designed to be the outside. The panels on the side will not last as long if you change the sill.

I forgot to mention the glass. Don't get your joiner to put it in get a glazier to do it. He will make up the cost of the glass for organizing it. There are so many options for glass so it is best to go and talk to the glass people. Just make sure that there are some glass stops made for it and if not get your joiner to supply you with some.

If you can't get them on the same day get some plywood to cover the holes till the glazier can come.

Your better off taking the door to a shop that can make the changes to the door then getting your joiner to do it on site as it will look much better. You will still save money, and can do it in steps instead of getting it all in one bill.

 

[Joiner]

You may find that the glazing rebate is for single glazed, it's impossible to tell from the photograph. However, that said, such doors will often take a 14mm unit without having to mess around with the mouldings/bead, I've just done it for a customer, although a lot of unit manufacturers won't make 14mm units any more. Because all his regular suppliers stopped doing them, my glass supplier had to spend half a day phoning round to find one that would. They're 'Planitherm' glass, gas-filled to bring them up to Regs. They're only slightly more expensive than low 'e' or 'K', but take up to two weeks to get.

With sapele use either a bronze or gold spacer. The latter, despite a lot of wise-cracks about it being chavvy, is often the better looking option when the units are fitted into the window or door.

 

[manbearpig]

Thanks for all your help so far guy, its been really helpful!


I've taken some more Pics of it, and Im not sure how It can be reversed, it looks pretty solidly made as a single direction door.

Ive tried to take lots of photos of the jambs, because I think it may be possible to just remove them, then swap and rotate them by 180 degrees. It looks like all the panelling is stuck onto the jambs. The outside of the jambs are also angled not flat, which will make things even trickier.

I've double checked and its completely solid, not veneered! It weighs an absolute tonne (probably over 100kg).


Do you think its even worth trying to get a few joiners to look at it? Or is it a no go?


Also while Im asking questions, Ive taken a photo of bits that need attention. Would I use ordinary wood filler to repair these parts?

 

[Shultzy]

This is the way I would tackle it, it may not be right but I'm sure someone will correct me.

Using your first pic as a guide, reverse the door in the frame ie turn it through 180degs. This makes it open outwards.

Rout out the existing beading for the glass. Make, or have made, new beading; glue (waterproof) and pin in place on the outside.

Check the lower panels. If the beading, that is now on the outside, is just pinned, remove and re-glue (waterproof), or remove and re-fix like above.

Good Luck.

 

[Joiner]

It's a straightforward job within the capabilities of any competent chippy. It's a job that will crop up a couple of times a year.

Just cut off (router recommended, with a template cutter to bring flush with the inside surface of the frame) the existing 'rebates'. (Don't mess around with the glazing rebates, it's not necessary!) You can probably get a short length of sapele from a timber merchants to infill the existing hinge cut outs and lock catch mortice, then sand flush/smooth.

Router the new cut outs for the hinges on the outside edge of the door and the frame. Simply move the door to the front of the frame and hang it. Mark the position for the lock catch plate and cut out its mortice. You'll need to reverse the direction of closing on the lock catch.

Cut new lengths to make the new 'rebates' and fix them into position with the door closed to get a good fit (allowing for the draughtproofing).

Should take about half a day, but expect to be charged for a whole day. At my rates, £150.

As for the "damage" - leave it and just sand off the rough edges. It'll probably be covered by whatever sealant (mortar or silicone) you use to seal the joint twixt brick and frame anyway.

 

[crazylilting]

I agree with joiner. It isn't a difficult job, but you want someone who is skilled enough to make it look good. £150 is a good guide price as well plus materials and install and glass. I would say the whole job excluding glass would be about £300. Glass can vary depending on what you want, there are a lot of options and most joiners don't want to get involved other then making the glass stops and leaving them loose for the glazier to install.

Possibly less if you take out the old door and assuming the opening is the same size and you help wrestling it into the frame with him.

 

[Joiner]

14mm (4-6-4) d/g units aren't cheap if you want to comply with regs, although if you don't tell the LBCO I won't! I now have to get mine in 'Planitherm' and to have them gas-filled then the wait is two weeks because there aren't many manufacturers making them.

Problem is, a lot of d/g unit manufacturers will only make them if you take them without a guarantee.

Check the actual size of the glazing rebate because sometimes the bead has a wide quirk on the fixed side which is matched on the glazing bead side by sitting the bead 'in' the frame. If you can sit the bead closer to the edge of the rebate (reducing the depth of the quirk) then you might find you have space to take a 16mm unit (4-8-4), which will cost the same as a standard unit, around the £50/sq.m mark for low 'e'.