Kit out my guitar workshop

[KMWGuitars]

Hi everyone, first time posting. (hammer)

Just done my first year at Uni on an Instrument making course with at least 2 years ahead of me. I'm giving serious consideration to kitting out my workshop early as it hampering my progress outside of school hours.

I've got a majority of my handtools and light power tools already but the bigger stuff is still missing as I'm not sure what to get.

Budgets in the region of 5k but the lower I can keep that the better, as what dosh I have left + savings will be used to cover me while I get up and running

My aim eventually is to knock out at least 1 guitar a month and reducing the workload with machines seems the obvious choice. Wont be going the whole CNC route as I aim to make hand crafted items even if the bulk of prep work is done by machines. You may be amazed at how much hands on is still required.

Space wise I have 4 metres by 4 metres of insulated garage converted with 240v Single phase only.

Its all a bit daunting trying to figure out what is a good make/reliable etc but I do have some ideas that you may agree with or steer me away from with better suggestions.

Here's a list of the main items I'm looking for with capabilities.

Large Bandsaw Looking at the Startrite 502e, Jet 18Q or Record 400 atm but not sure if its overkill.
Capabilities -
Materials, mainly MDF and hardwoods, possible plastics on occasion.
For cutting out 2”+ body blanks prior to routing flush.
Removing excess material from necks/ finger boards.
Angle cuts for scarf joints
Trimming initial curved mould templates.
Ripping boards 8”-10” tall from larger chunks to reduce costs for back and sides for acoustics guitars and the list goes on.

Small Bandsaw/scrollsaw Don't think I can really go wrong with the little Jet one Axminster does?
Capabilities -
Small jobs for more delicate work like inlay shapes, bridge shaping, trimming veneers etc

Planer/thicknesser Only used a portable thicknesser so far and separate jointer so no idea whats a good option. Figured a PT would save room over all.
Capabilities -
Thicknesses Min 5mm max 5”
Widths around 10”, 15" would be great but if the cost jump is massive I could deal with less
For neck blanks nothing bigger than a metre long normally but could go up to 2 metres for a through neck project I guess.

Drum Sander Don’t know much about these but pretty sure it would speed up production times getting things to almost final thickness prior to tweaking, so any advice/info welcomed.
Capabilities –
10” width Ideal, 24” for jointed boards
Thickness Min 1.5mm, Max 5”

Drill Press At a loss here. I've read something bad about everything I've looked at so far, from lots of run out to bendy tables. Any help much appreciated.

Mainly for tuner pegs/machine heads, bridge pins and hogging out cavity material prior to routing

Capabilities –
Quick set Depth Stop
8-10” Throat
Little to No run out
Decent Table with height Adj
Floor mounted

Oscillating Spindle Sander More a whim atm but would help to know a good brand.
For Headstock/ Heel Transitions so doesn't have to be a beast.

Any and all suggestions welcome. Been looking on and off for months but my head starts swimming in jargon by the time I compare 5 machines side by side.

P.S thank you for even taking the time to read this

Kevin

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Two bandsaws sounds wonderful, but considering resawing plates and ripping neck stock can be done as a batch process, could you not swap blades as needed?
Would put drum ahead of thickness planer for what you need. It would be nice to have a large one, but I find a performax 16 32 good enough... Just fiddly to set up initially.
A spindle sander is a real boon for fairing bandsawn curves in moulds, refining compound curves in cutaways etc.
How do you plan on radiusing your fret boards? Though I don't have one, suspect a belt sander would be very handy to have.
Don't forget decent dust extraction. Go 3hp minimum to prolong sanding media lifespan. Really make a difference with both drum and bobbin sanders.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

A friend of mine who was originally an IT director in industry, jacked it all in and really invested in his mid life crisis. Also went to guitar luthiering school for 3 years and has since made about 4 guitars. He must have spent well over 30K on kit and yet he's made.....4 guitars.

The problem is nothing to do with tooling and everything to do with finding a market for his output. He's a perfectionist and makes absolutely superb quality acoustics. This means they have to sell for a minimum of £2k if not £4k. This means he's selling to the hand built, customised to your exact spec market and its very tricky to break into that when you have no name or reputation and you're up against, Martin, Taylor, Collings, Maton etc.

So without wishing to pour cold water on the idea, I recommend you really think through the business strategy you intend to adopt before splashing out huge amounts on tooling. For example, a really good way to make ends meet at the start is to become known as the guy who sets up your new acoustic. Also take in repairs, truss rod maintenance, bridge, saddle repairs etc etc. The guitar industry is absolutely over saturated with makers and I warn you now you will really struggle to get a foot hold in it.

 

[KMWGuitars]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Two bandsaws sounds wonderful, but considering resawing plates and ripping neck stock can be done as a batch process, could you not swap blades as needed?
Would put drum ahead of thickness planer for what you need. It would be nice to have a large one, but I find a performax 16 32 good enough... Just fiddly to set up initially.
A spindle sander is a real boon for fairing bandsawn curves in moulds, refining compound curves in cutaways etc.
How do you plan on radiusing your fret boards? Though I don't have one, suspect a belt sander would be very handy to have.
Don't forget decent dust extraction. Go 3hp minimum to prolong sanding media lifespan. Really make a difference with both drum and bobbin sanders.

Dunbar, that sander looks ideal even for jointed plates since its designed to allow larger pieces through for multiple passes. Jet have a similar model I believe available at axminster.

The 2 bandsaws is just something I'm getting used to at Uni since blade swapping isn't something they do unless it breaks, since they have others in the building of various sizes. I guess my approach is adopting what I already do but I could get away with swapping blades at home once I work out what sizes would be appropriate.

Fretboard radiusing, I have various blocks to use manually atm but plan later to rig up a jig with a router to get closer to finished dimensions pre sanding/fretting etc.

For dust extraction I''ve got a 1000w cylinder jobby from axminster I picked up 2nd hand for £30. Mounting it on wheels to move from machine to machine as needed was the plan in the short term. A hanging / wall mounted unit may also on the cards though depending how it all works out.

A friend of mine who was originally an IT director in industry, jacked it all in and really invested in his mid life crisis. Also went to guitar luthiering school for 3 years and has since made about 4 guitars. He must have spent well over 30K on kit and yet he's made.....4 guitars.

Sounds like I have a doppleganger. Nowhere near 30k on kit so far though but I do have a nice collection of LN/Vertias etc hand tools so far.

The problem is nothing to do with tooling and everything to do with finding a market for his output. He's a perfectionist and makes absolutely superb quality acoustics. This means they have to sell for a minimum of £2k if not £4k. This means he's selling to the hand built, customised to your exact spec market and its very tricky to break into that when you have no name or reputation and you're up against, Martin, Taylor, Collings, Maton etc.

So without wishing to pour cold water on the idea, I recommend you really think through the business strategy you intend to adopt before splashing out huge amounts on tooling. For example, a really good way to make ends meet at the start is to become known as the guy who sets up your new acoustic. Also take in repairs, truss rod maintenance, bridge, saddle repairs etc etc. The guitar industry is absolutely over saturated with makers and I warn you now you will really struggle to get a foot hold in it.

All sound advise and I completely agree with you on this and its the part that worries me the most.

Part of the reason for trying to find the ideal equipment that will last and not need upgrading is to be able to use it to create back and sides, neck blanks etc to sell as a sideline as well as reduce my overall wood costs. "Tonewood" has silly prices attached to it and becoming a supplier on the side is an option I'm looking into atm. I also want to make other items that I can punt at bootfairs, craft / gift shops etc like toy cars, planes, attractive coat racks, all kinds of idea's using mainly scrap materials from my guitars. Additionally the concept of not being an overnight sensation in the luthiery biz i'm aware of and have no delusions that most of my income will come from setups and repairs initially if not forever. But all this will give me the man cave that will keep me happy as I head to retirement even if I go back into IT or stacking Asda shelfs in the meantime to support my midlife crisis

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

LOL.....I like your style. That's EXACTLY the kind of resilience you'll need. I really wish you luck

Gimme a bell in 2 years...my Taylor and Lowden might need setting up again by then

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Hehehe. Funnily, I was in IT and planned to do the London School of Furniture instrument making degree a few years ago. Health got in the way, and I'm just on the brink of starting making again... Don't think the course is an option since I seem to have permanently dropped 20-30 points IQ (really struggling with basic calculus for acoustics stuff, mutter) So now it's just seeing if my fine motor control is up to it... If not my stock will go into serviced kits.

On the dust extraction front, I started with a 1kw thing which was fine for routers and bandsaw, but nigh on useless for sanding machines... Though this was only clear when I upgraded.

 

[KMWGuitars]

You should consider it Dunbar, London School of Furniture instrument making degree is the one I'm doing although its now called London Metropolitan University, Musical Instruments. I'm the oldest student at 40 odd (at least in my year) except for a part timer who happens to be 60 The math isn't too heavy on the acoustics side of the course (at least in the first year), so you'll get time to get to grips with it.

LOL.....I like your style. That's EXACTLY the kind of resilience you'll need. I really wish you luck

Gimme a bell in 2 years...my Taylor and Lowden might need setting up again by then

We thought it would be hard to get started but look at that, I may of just got my first client for when I finish, all from a post about bandsaws

 

[beech1948]

I know nothing about Lutherie at all.

I was having look at your first post and thinking 4 square metres. Thats about 6ft 6in or 2 metres square. So where is he going to fit in all that kit and a bench; even a small one at say 2ftx4ft....thats a square metre gone, standing space another square metre, big bandsaw another square metre. So thats 3 square metre gone already. Drill press another 1/2 square metre, sander 1/2 squ m. moving around space, build space, finishing space, drying space, wood store, coffee machine, kettle...yes just my joke but you never know.

Sorry to be a bit negative with the questions but you will need a space a little larger. Pencil and paper diagram will be your friend as you position each bit of kit and leave some room to move around. A too tight workshop can become dangerous.

So what is the minimum kit you need.

Alan

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Four square metres or four metres square?

 

[beech1948]

He says "four square metres

Al

 

[KMWGuitars]

My bad. The room is 4 metres wide and 4 metres long.

I also have an additional 2 x 4 meter area beyond the insulated area where my current work benches reside that May well end up insulated and used for storage later. At the moment though the plan is to use the insulated area to avoid rusting, humidity extremes etc.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

He says "four square metres

Al

I know what he said.

 

[Kalimna]

I would echo Randoms' advice regarding the business end. Without having looked into it, whilst selling tonewood sounds like a nice way to expand the business, I can't imagine that the UK market for luthiery is big enough. Tonewood is expensive for a reason, and have you thought where you would source the raw timber for milling?

Regarding the equipment/machinery, I suspect that two bandsaws is indeed overkill. Which is fine if you have considerable space to play with. And the bandsaws you mention should be more than enough for the job.
If you do find that space is at a premium, then some of the work done by an oscillating spindle sander can be done with drill press mounted spindles. I would also suggest that belt/disk sander be more useful in the long run.
Have you factored in a good bench or two (to separate work areas into build, finishing, electrics etc)?
Similarly, have you thought about how you will finish your instruments? French polish? Lacquer spray? A dedicated spray booth I would imagine is a necessity for a production set up.
Other things I didn't notice you mentioning, but may have thought of :
A couple of routers 1/2" and laminate trimmer
Power sanding - random orbital, palm
Hand drill - powered and hand driven

Probably a few other things too I've forgotten!

Good luck with it,
Adam

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Those drum sanders are pretty handy for fine tolerance sanding of spruce/Rosewood tops/backs etc. Not cheap either. I've always wanted one of those. I was thinking I bet they're fabulous for preparing rough sawn components for segmented turning work.

 

[Kalimna]

Yeah, my 16-32 gets used an awful lot. Not very good for rough thicknessing, but ideal for final dimensioning. And with a 120 or 180 belt, a very smooth finish. Having said that, most frustrating when a gummed up streak of resin appears on the belts.......

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

What's the most they'll remove realistically in a single pass then Adam? And I have heard they're finicky to align the parallelism with the table for an even cut....any comments on that?

 

[Kalimna]

I reckon that if you put a 40grit loading on the drum, then .4mm is doable for a few passes before the motor gets a bit warm and shuts off. With the higher grits, then no more than .2mm per pass.
Regarding the setting up of the drum, yeah it's a pain, and I've not come across an entirely suitable way to achieve parallelism. I have used two strips of wood that have been drum thicknessed in the same part of the drum (if you follow my description....) to ensure as identical as possible thickness, then placed at each end of the drum which is then loosened and lowered onto the wood strips. I then tighten up the alignment bolts, and in theory this should work, but there is a little wiggle trial and error as the alignment adjusts to being tightened. You get there eventually, but is a pain. Having said that, I have found it to be rock solid once aligned.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Thanks Adam.

 

[Kalimna]

You're welcome.