Ibbotson tool?

[dennyom]

HI everyone,
For some of you saw gurus.
I have been asked to help in identifying this medallion. It was found in an archaeological context in a cave dig in southern Minnesota USA. Of interest would be information about the maker and tool it came from (saw?). If possible the range of years that this medallion would have been produced would help in the dating of this layer of the dig. From other material found near it we believe it to be about 1900. I have not had a chance to see the medallion for myself yet but here is the description sent to me.

"Hello Dennis and any other interested parties.

I was able to scan the Ibbotson Brothers medallion that we found in
sinkhole D4971 in the Cherry Grove Blind Valley SNA on May 30 2009. The
image is pasted below. The medallion is 26 mm in diameter (~ 1 inch in
diameter). Any thoughts or information that any one can provide on when
this medallion was made will be much appreciated.

The printing and figure on the metallion are raised above a flat
background. When I first looked at this image my eyes wanted to see the
letters and figure in negative relief or imprinted into the metal..
When I started from the bottom and imagined that it is lighted from the
lower right side, my eyes finally see it correctly.

I am not sure who the figure is. He is wearing what looks like a
Greek or Roman helmet, is clothed only in the helmet and a cloak over
his shoulders and sandals and is riding bare back on a horse. He is
holding a short sword and is killing something with wings on the ground
(a dragon?, a griffin?, or some other mythical flying beast?) It looks
more like a Greek cavalry soldier image."

The image on the medallion does not match any that I have found on the web for the the Ibbotson Bros. company. This is the photo of the medallion thet was emailed to me. In the inner circle above the riders head is the word ROYAL, I can't make out the word below the image. I know it is not very good but is all I have to work with.

Any one have any thoughts that can point us in the right direction?

Thanks
Dennis[/img]

 

[lurker]

Hi Dennis

If it were me I'd contact Alf at http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/

I bet she would know

 

[NickWelford]

I have just sold a large Ibbotson chisel on the bay - see here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....sacat=See-All-Categories&_naf=1&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

I know nothing about it though

 

[bugbear]

Ibbotson Brothers

Ibbotsons are well known edge tools makers - I imagine BRITISH PLANEMAKERS FROM 1700, 3rd Edition, by Goodman would be the reference of choice.

I've not heard of them making saws, but the reference here is:

"Hand-Saw Makers of Britain", by Schaffer and McConnell.

BugBear (who owns neither)

 

[woodbloke]

Hi Dennis

If it were me I'd contact Alf at http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/

I bet she would know

...except that Alf appears to have long departed the woodworking scene, last Blog entry was on 01 Apr :? - Rob

 

[Argus]

.



Richard Ibbotson company were Sheffield edge tool makers in various incarnations throughout the 19th C.

The medallion logo is in all probability St George – patron saint of England, Russia and other places – and was used on all sorts of commercial headings in the 19thC.

Here are a few historical sites that may have some research. There is quite a lot known about Sheffield makers.

http://www.sheffieldrecordsonline.org.uk/

http://www.backsaw.net/

Contemporary trade directories will tell you when they were active and at what addresses in the city.


.

 

[lurker]

Hi Dennis

If it were me I'd contact Alf at http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/

I bet she would know

...except that Alf appears to have long departed the woodworking scene, last Blog entry was on 01 Apr :? - Rob

Rob - I think the DATE of that blog entery might be of significance, or maybe you are better informed than me. If you are right tis a shame.

 

[woodbloke]

...the DATE of that blog entery might be of significance, or maybe you are better informed than me. If you are right tis a shame.

She does say though though, in that last post that it was an April Fool...thing is though, she appears to have dropped of the planet as far as t'internet is concerned. No inputs either on the 'other side' so I know not what's happened to her. If anyone can shed any light I think all on UKWorkshop would be grateful - Rob

 

[Evergreen]

Dennis

The normal Ibbotson trade marks are either a stirrup, as is usually stamped into their chisels, or a globe on their backsaws.

I'd agree with Argus that your medallion depicts St George killing the dragon, a favourite English patriotic symbol.

It's possible this medallion was used to commemorate Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee in 1887 or her Diamond Jubilee in 1897. It might have been included in the handle fastenings as a "special edition" to boost sales on either of those great national events while the usual trademarks were etched on the blade or back. The Victorians were great entrepreneurs and salesmen and wouldn't have missed an opportunity to cash in on the patriotic mood of the country!

However, this is pure speculation on my part.

 

[Argus]

.


Either of the jubilees would have inspired all sorts of commemorative objects.

What is worth considering is the connection between the sovereign's anniversaries (Queen Victoria) and the device on the reverse of a gold sovereign which is a classical mounted St George, facing the right, skewering a dragon.

Sovereigns were the absolute currency of last resort until Britain came off the gold standard.


.

 

[Ironballs]

If anyone can shed any light I think all on UKWorkshop would be grateful - Rob

Here, here

 

[dennyom]

Thanks for your help on this, it would be interesting if any other parts of the tool (saw) showed up. I have passed your suggestions and comments on to Dr. Alexander.

Dennis

 

[Martin Cash]

Over at the Woodworkers Forum in Australia, Ray G (Ray Gardiner) is highly regarded as an authority on saw-lore.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/index.php
He has his own website:
http://www.backsaw.net/
Perhaps he could shed more light on your medallion
Cheers
MC