How do I know if a quote for work is reasonable?

[DrPhill]

I have a job that needs doing, and have been trying to get quotes for it. I have only managed to get two so far, and they are both higher than I expected. Now this may be because I am sorely out of touch with current prices, or because the builders don't want the job and so gave a high price (I have heard that this happens - maybe I have heard wrong). Is there any way that I can find out whether a quote is reasonable?

Unfortunately the work needs doing (in my opinion) and is outside my comfort zone.

 

[Spectric]

Some idea of the work you need doing and the prices quoted would help. The fact they are higher than you expected could be that you are out of touch as you have said. When you look at the cost of materials they have rocketed in price, plaster and cement have almost doubled in price and just a tube of EBT has gone up by around £3 so higher prices are now normal.

 

[DrPhill]

OK, sure, details would help in this case. I was thinking of 'in general', but happy to make the question particular to this case. The patio has been laid too high at the back of the house. I need it cut back and a gravel trap put in. I will need approx six air-brick gullies put in, and I want aco round the outside of the gully. (aco will remove most of the water, gravel trap will allow a bit of ventilation) The total length of gully is about 13m. There is drainage available at each end of the proposed gully.
Costing up the materials gives me approx 500gbp (I could be low, and did not cost the gravel or cement). The quotes were in the 2500 region.

Compared to other jobs the prices seem high - but again I may be out of touch.

Thanks for any input.

 

[eribaMotters]

Difficult to say, but as a comparison if you priced up a Woodwork job I would not be surprised to see a job wit £500 in materials coming out at £2,000 overall. Also, sand and cement is now a fortune compared to the days of old. Builders merchants typically charge £4.50 - £5.00 for sharp sand and £10 for cement.

Colin

 

[DrPhill]

Difficult to say, but as a comparison if you priced up a Woodwork job I would not be surprised to see a job wit £500 in materials coming out at £2,000 overall. Also, sand and cement is now a fortune compared to the days of old. Builders merchants typically charge £4.50 - £5.00 for sharp sand and £10 for cement.

Colin

A four to one ratio? That does make the quotes look more reasonable. I think the job has a higher labour-to-materials ratio than many others. Lots of disk-cutter work,

 

[Spectric]

The question has to be asked as to why someone laid the patio to high, I gather it is bridging the dampcourse ? This is a real schoolboy error but maybe you brought the house like this and the last owner never twigged.

 

[user 43593]

I have had a lot of success using sites like My Builder. A new 6in deep concrete base 8' x 6' in size (adjacent to old smaller base 8' x 6') and replacing rotten fence posts and fencing brought estimates which differed by up to £4,000! In the end, I did not choose the cheapest quote but looked at the review histories of the three companies I was considering. I eventually decided on the people who did not keep trying to suggest far more work needed doing than I was requesting. using these sites means you get the estimate directly and an opportunity to get a feel for how the company may operate. A check on companies house financial history also helps you to make the decision as to where to spend your money.

 

[artie]

This is the age old quandary.

It could be that the guy(s) that laid the patio were not too expensive. but now it's going to be more to make it right.
Pretty sure you won't want that outcome again.

 

[DrPhill]

The question has to be asked as to why someone laid the patio to high, I gather it is bridging the dampcourse ? This is a real schoolboy error but maybe you brought the house like this and the last owner never twigged.

It is not bridging the damp course but is significantly less than the require 150mm - more like 50mm. The air-brick gullies that were installed have been cut so that there is only an inch for the air to travel down. I suspect one and more likely two air bricks have been covered completely. The regs are there for a purpose (I assume) and so guess that there may be a risk of future problems.
We bought the house like this (quite recently) and it was pointed out in the survey so I was expecting to have to get the job done. We have some money earmarked for remedial works, but I was surprised by the quotes. I don't mind spending some money now, while I have it, to benefit my future self, but I did not want to pay a ludricrous price because the quoters were unwilling.

 

[artie]

I have had a lot of success using sites like My Builder.

About 4 yrs ago I decided to concrete part of the back yard. So I contacted some local men. Some on my builder.
Out of the five or six I contacted only two turned up.
And only one quoted a price. I gave him the job.
It's not awful put there are a couple of puddles when it rains. One right in front of the workshop door.
I didn't leave a review, but I won't have him back either.

 

[user 43593]

About 4 yrs ago I decided to concrete part of the back yard

Hmmm... it sounds as if you were unlucky. My chosen company looked at the job and asked me about the total fall I wanted in the 12 foot width once they had met the exact dimensions of the existing slab of concrete for size, depth and height. That gave me some confidence in their ability to do the job. I believe that MyBuilder now charges its trades around £1500 p.a.to be listed so it is not cheap advertising. The accrued feedback for listed trades cannot be edited or erased. You could easily get ten estimates and examine your anxieties over the work with each candidate by asking them the same questions.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I am not a builder (just reasonably DIY competent) but the job you describe seems like a few days work.

Cutting back 13m of patio carefully to leave a clean edge, removing spoil, installing gullies, gravel, concreting in the air brick gullies - I would guess 2 (or more likely) 3 days work.

You have costed £500 of materials and may need to add £2-400 for cement, sand, gravel, cutting discs etc + disposal of waste.

Were I having this job done I would guess at ~£1200 for labour and total £800 for materials. £2500 may be a little high but around our way getting trades to even quote can be trying. Recently asked a bathroom fitter working next door for a bathroom refit quote - "can't do anything until next May"

 

[Spectric]

Again this shows a shortage of skilled tradesmen and price comes down to supply and demand so as the number decreases the cost is just going to rise. The reason is simple, our ridiculous education system thinks that everyone needs to go to university to get a bit of paper that says they are good at learning when in reality not everyone is academic and should be streamed through more trade / technical roles like building, plumbing and such so bring back the technical colleges which supplied so many skilled people and they don't need to be burdened with that huge loan.

 

[user 43593]

not everyone is academic and should be streamed through more trade / technical roles like building, plumbing and such

I left school at the age of 15. My final year in school had technical rooms where those not bound for university could be given some basic insights that would be useful to any potential employer. In that year I picked up some helpful experience in printing, joinery, metal work, blacksmithing, lathe work, electrical circuits, plumbing, gas fitting and bricklaying. Useful because I was able to become a toolmaker's improver on leaving school. These days, I have met many highly qualified marine biologists who find themselves employed to feed the fish in a public aquarium.

 

[DrPhill]

Well, the third quote came in after I had started this thread. It was the best presented quote (described the job in detail, described the materials, said how long it would take, specifically stated that the area would be left clean and tidy). The price was lower than the others too (~2kgbp). From what people have said here it seems that my initial reaction was based on outdated conceptions.

I have gone with that one. I am sure that the others were just as competent, but with little to go on but price and presentation the third quote looked the best. All the tradesmen were well-reviewed, the one who I chose was a recommend (albeit by an estate agent).

I must have asked 6-8 people to quote, only five responded, only four turned up, only three quoted. It seems that we do have a lack of tradespeople relative to the jobs needing doing. A nice position for them, but frustrating for the rest of us.I guess we have enough graphic designers, aromatherapists and telephone sanitisers though.

Thanks for you comments - it added a dose of reality that helped me accept what seemed like high quotes.

Phill

 

[Samkilby]

I don’t know how long it would take, so even to provide an uneducated guesstimate on pricing (really not my field of expertise) I would need more info I’m afraid.
I like being upfront when quoting, up to and including an estimate on how many days I am quoting for. If making something this is much of a muchness, as there is no oversight in to how long it actually takes me, but when presenting a quote often the client will not know how many days work are involved in making a tidy job, so will assume they are bing ripped off. A bit of communication/education is key with the client here.

I am not a builder (just reasonably DIY competent) but the job you describe seems like a few days work.

Cutting back 13m of patio carefully to leave a clean edge, removing spoil, installing gullies, gravel, concreting in the air brick gullies - I would guess 2 (or more likely) 3 days work.

You have costed £500 of materials and may need to add £2-400 for cement, sand, gravel, cutting discs etc + disposal of waste.

Were I having this job done I would guess at ~£1200 for labour and total £800 for materials. £2500 may be a little high but around our way getting trades to even quote can be trying. Recently asked a bathroom fitter working next door for a bathroom refit quote - "can't do anything until next May"

In response to the above, also included in the labour cost is stuff like - owning, operating and insuring a works van, an accountants fees, pli, holiday pay, possible sick pay, setting up and maintaining a website, I imagine most ground workers have to rent a small yard or lockup etc.
for just a person to turn up and work hard, I would be expecting £150-£250 a day, but if operating their own business I would probably expect this to be nearer double.
Also depends heavily on the local labour market too and what the going rate is.

 

[Doug71]

I've heard a few stories lately of tradesmen seemingly over estimating how long it will take to do a job to make the price sound cheaper then doing the job in less time than they said but still wanting the agreed payment.

Decorators seem to be the worst, for example saying "It will probably take 3 days and will cost you £450". Customer thinks £150 a day is about right for a decorator so agrees the price. Decorator then finishes job in 2 days but still demands the £450 they agreed on as "that was the price for the job", the customer then feels cheated as they have ended up paying £225 a day for someone to do a bit of painting.........

 

[Richard_C]

Thats the whole basis of a business transaction, you wouldn't go and buy a new sofa and expect to pay less because the truck delivering it arrived early because didn't get held up in traffic. You agree a price for something, the risk and opportunity lies wih the provider: if they do it quicker they make more money, if they take longer they lose out. If they quote silly-high, they don't get the work.

The customer is paying for a decorated room, not the act of decorating the room.

 

[Samkilby]

Thats the whole basis of a business transaction, you wouldn't go and buy a new sofa and expect to pay less because the truck delivering it arrived early because didn't get held up in traffic. You agree a price for something, the risk and opportunity lies wih the provider: if they do it quicker they make more money, if they take longer they lose out. If they quote silly-high, they don't get the work.

The customer is paying for a decorated room, not the act of decorating the room.

Couldn’t agree with this more.
If the price is to provide a product or the result of my labour and experience, then the end price is the end price. I will often give an amount of days estimate to reflect my pricing, and this is led by experience and often worst case scenarios - this or that could be a nightmare, and if it is, I am going to be working for free if I don’t quote for it etc.
if it’s something I can’t easily estimate, or stuff that’s slightly out of my wheelhouse I won’t do it unless the client will agree to an hourly rate, for that part of the job.
if something takes significantly shorter than expected, or upon receiving a quote from a supplier that is significantly less than I estimated initially, I will often hand on these savings to the client.

If you can’t afford what people are charging, you must do it yourself. Even with a decorator there is also work happening that the client might not see, I.e. waste disposal, cleaning brushes, loading up the van with the appropriate kit, laundry of work clothing, client visits and quoting, travel to and from site.
They might work through lunch or work longer hours to get the job done in less days but similar hours etc..
fair play. I wouldn’t be at all annoyed if someone quoted me a price, and then delivered on that price, regardless of however many days it took or my perception of their labour and experiences value.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

James McNeill Whistler -
No, I ask it for the knowledge of a lifetime.
in his case against Ruskin, replying to the question: ‘For two days' labour, you ask two hundred guineas?’