Got any recommendations for squares?

[Droogs]

For good quality V cost, I would recomend the I-gauging or Fisher kit. Funnily enough, i think Mr Sefton above just might, possibly maybe sells them

 

[Jacob]

I have never found carpenters squares to be reliable, they are attractive and romantic but not accurate and cost the same as an engineers square.

If a square isn't square then it's not a square, it's just something cluttering up your bench and confusing the user.

The new ones seem to be pretty poor. I've only ever bought one and it was out.
Have had several sliding combis and they've all been OK including £5 one.
The old ones can be good, possibly because they've been tweaked by previous owner. Maybe that's the detail which has gone out of fashion.

 

[Sideways]

I have one complaint about the usability of all the traditional squares: carpenters, engineering and combination, that is that they won't lie flat on a board. The weight of the body tips them on edge the moment you let go.
Now clearly this doesn't affect their ability to check or mark square, but there are plenty of instances where it would be nice to just let go of the square without worrying if it's going to fall off the plank that you are marking up. A square with a T edge is very convenient in this instance. It's one reason (as well as light weight and all in one construction) why I like the empire framing square. You let go of it and it stays where you put it on the board.
Other, better, tools that offer the same T edge are the Shinwa and lookalikes
https://www.workshopheaven.com/shinwa-stainless-steel-mitre-square-45-90.htmlAnd this pattern of square made by Kinex and others
https://www.workshopheaven.com/kinex-hardened-flanged-set-up-square-100mm.htmlThe little one above is too small for general woodwork marking out, but Kinex themselves make these in a wide range of sizes and grades.

Many of us at some point will end up doing a job on trestles or a workmate outside the house. In that instance, it is so easy for small tools to be dropped onto concrete paving and damaged. A square that will lie flat, unattended, is a nice thing to have.

 

[Jacob]

I have one complaint about the usability of all the traditional squares: carpenters, engineering and combination, that is that they won't lie flat on a board. The weight of the body tips them on edge the moment you let go.....

Mine doesn't. I'll dig out a photo. It's one good reason why I like it!
Back in a jiffy!
Yes those empire squares look like a good design though I've never had my hands on one

 

[mikej460]

I bought one each of these and they are dead square and cheap! They are not as well finished than the combi squares but I recommend them

Starrett K53M-250-S Try Square : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Starrett K53M-350-S Try Square : AmazonSmile: DIY & Tools

I also have a Shinwa for smaller work which is also excellent

For accurate marking out I've just bought one of these, as recommended by Dennis at Hooked On Wood and will buy then 760mm version after Christmas (which bizarrely has £10 shipping)

Veiko ts precision woodworking line scriber marking t ruler with pen aluminum alloy hole positioning marking gauge 300/400/500/600/760mm Sale - Banggood.com

Hope this is useful

 

[Jacob]

Balancing square. Had it for many years. The blade is actually 6 x 2" so it's bigger than I thought. It's just geometry and weight distribution which makes it balance.
It's my favourite for marking up. It really is convenient to be able to leave it sitting there, you might be sharpening a pencil etc.
I've probably checked the outer edge and the brass face once or twice and stoned them a bit.
I did have a Crown, similar but didn't balance. Can't find it must have binned it.
If I had to replace it I think I'd look at the Empire Blue pattern. It'd have to balance on 2" stuff - the 7" might be too big. Empire True Blue Rafter Square 7 E2994

 

[D_W]

If you're looking to perhaps make your own square out of something stable, and be able to check it, I would be willing to bet plastic drafting triangles are far more square on average than most low cost try squares or framing squares. I may have one or two of those that I bought in the past, and I definitely do have a now no-longer certified 24" starrett try (engineer's) square that will tell how close it is.

I'm a bit perplexed by the desire to by a cheap square first, though, rather than an accurate older square (and then there is no lower limit on how cheap you can go as you can check anything).

Many of the inexpensive squares will be so bad that you could literally hand file them into better accuracy.

 

[JSW]

If you're looking to perhaps make your own square out of something stable, and be able to check it, I would be willing to bet plastic drafting triangles are far more square on average than most low cost try squares or framing squares.

Yep, plastic drafting triangles are a great addition to any workshop, mine are from doing my C&G's back in the mid 1970's, still going strong and the go-to for checking internals.

 

[Jacob]

....

I'm a bit perplexed by the desire to by a cheap square first, ......

Because many of the 'superior' offerings are very expensive. Not difficult to understand.
You don't get much for the extra money as a woodworker but I guess an engineer might find them more useful.
PS I was pleased to read Sideways' comment about 'balance' I thought it was just me being a bit obsessive.
'Balance' gets mentioned a lot with hand tools but usually without much meaning.

 

[D_W]

Because many of the "superior" offerings are very expensive. Not difficult to understand.
You don't get much for the extra money as a woodworker but I guess an engineer might find them more useful.
PS I was pleased to read Sideways' comment about 'balance' I thought it was just me being a bit obsessive.
'Balance' gets mentioned a lot with hand tools but usually without much meaning.

or, you can just be like my English friend here was. Buy something mid market, have no way to check it, have struggles with it trying to do fine work (not everyone is hacking around builder's pine) using it and using it to set up jointer fences, and then later buy something good.

I don't see any cheap hardened head squares on ebay UK or I'd have posted them here, but there is a gorgeous browne and sharpe set for about 75 pounds.

that's past my limit of taste, but it isn't a tool that will lose value.

it doesn't need to be an expensive square, either, just something verifiable (drafting triangle if they're that straight would be just fine. I have trouble believing draftsmen would tolerate a plastic triangle off a hundredth of an inch over a foot).

The US appears to be an easier place to find vintage measuring stuff. My starrett 24 inch try square is super magic for checking the squareness of big stuff (framing squares, jigs, etc - can't say I've made too many jigs, though - one every five years) - and it cost $1.05 an inch or a little less ($25 - it's probably close to a dollar a pound).

hardened head combination squares here are $50 - the 6" squares that I have that look like yours, or bigger, are not so square. I don't know if they were dropped or the wood moved or what, but I wouldn't do clean work with them (they're site tools) without correcting them and wouldn't dream of using them for toolmaking.

 

[Zedgeezer]

I've just spent my evening screwing ang gluing a frame. It had to be square so I clamped the bottom to a workmate then tapped the top until the diagonals were similar. i.e. if you want a true right angle measure the top left to bottom right corners then the reverse measurement and when they are identical you've got a perfect parallel frame.

 

[Jacob]

I've just spent my evening screwing ang gluing a frame. It had to be square so I clamped the bottom to a workmate then tapped the top until the diagonals were similar. i.e. if you want a true right angle measure the top left to bottom right corners then the reverse measurement and when they are identical you've got a perfect parallel frame.

Or a lath with a nail sideways in one end and a pencil mark at the other can be handy for the same job and you don't need a tape. Measuring the diagonals inside the frame from corner to corner.
If you are sash clamping the frame you can pull it into square by skewing the clamp slightly, assuming it won't spring back when you release it.

 

[RobinBHM]

I’ve always used a basic engineers square

https://www.toolstation.com/minotaur-engineers-square/p69685

 

[Doug71]

I had three different sized Marples squares, lots of lovely brass and Rosewood on display, they looked great on my tool wall, thing was I soon realised they weren't square

Like others engineers squares for me now

 

[Sideways]

Mine doesn't...

Very cool Jacob
I've never seen one like that.
Instantly obvious when you see the wide blade, compact body and proportions.

It's very tempting to try and make a version of that. Interesting machining exercise.
Another project added to the list !

 

[Jacob]

I had three different sized Marples squares, lots of lovely brass and Rosewood on display, they looked great on my tool wall, thing was I soon realised they weren't square

Like others engineers squares for me now

You are supposed to tweak them if necessary, not just rush out and buy another!

 

[Orraloon]

A square is one thing I like to buy in person so I can check it is square before I pay for it

If you're looking to perhaps make your own square out of something stable, and be able to check it, I would be willing to bet plastic drafting triangles are far more square on average than most low cost try squares or framing squares. I may have one or two of those that I bought in the past, and I definitely do have a now no-longer certified 24" starrett try (engineer's) square that will tell how close it is.

I'm a bit perplexed by the desire to by a cheap square first, though, rather than an accurate older square (and then there is no lower limit on how cheap you can go as you can check anything).

Many of the inexpensive squares will be so bad that you could literally hand file them into better accuracy.

I got put on to drafting squares on another forum years ago. I keep a 60* and a 45* in a drawer and have even taken one along to the hardware store to check a square I was going to buy. I was not sure they would let me draw pencil lines on some of their plywood.
Regards
John

 

[Jacob]

.......

Many of the inexpensive squares will be so bad that you could literally hand file them into better accuracy.

Many of them are spot on but yes you've got it! Well done!
Perhaps not 'file' - easier on a flat stone or wet wet n dry.

 

[Peter Sefton]

You are supposed to tweak them if necessary, not just rush out and buy another!

You do talk some rubbish, even you have said your own square isn't square but you are happy to try and convince others they should follow your logical thinking.

 

[Adam W.]

Bridge City Toolworks have been known to re-tune their bijou joinery squares.