Freehand Sharpening - which technique?

[Jacob]

....

For me, the advantage of honing on the hollow is that the bevel angle is maintained. ....

If you simply hold it at the same angle every time you hone or grind, this also "maintains" the bevel. More reliably than relying on a hollow - it's difficult to be sure that your hollow will sit exactly within the chosen angle.
If you want to hone an edge at 30º just hold it at 30º.
Hmm, maybe a diagram would help?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Blimey - we seem to have morphed from 'my method's better than yours' to 'mine's faster than yours' - do we all have to add stop-watches to the list of essential sharpening kit, now? What did they use in the old days when stop-watches were rare and expensive? Egg-timers?

Maybe that was one of the old secrets of 18th and 19th century woodworking apprenticeships. If the apprentices didn't have the plane-iron sharp by the time the sand had run through the egg-timer, the master had them tied to a bench-end and flogged by naked Peruvian virgins with oiled nut sacks. No wonder they were glad when man-made stones replaced Turkeys and Charnley Forests!

 

[ED65]

I voted for deliberate convex bevel as that's mostly what I end up with now. But I've actually used every option listed at some point.

Weirdly the option that nobody has voted for on the poll, working the blade side to side, I did only yesterday but I'd only do this very occasionally.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I voted for deliberate convex bevel as that's mostly what I end up with now. But I've actually used every option listed at some point.

Weirdly the option that nobody has voted for on the poll, working the blade side to side, I did only yesterday but I'd only do this very occasionally.

We were asked to vote on a grinding method. I did mention side-to-side honing as my preference, with honing on the hollow. S-to-S is a honing method and was not paired with this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

....

For me, the advantage of honing on the hollow is that the bevel angle is maintained. ....

If you simply hold it at the same angle every time you hone or grind, this also "maintains" the bevel. More reliably than relying on a hollow - it's difficult to be sure that your hollow will sit exactly within the chosen angle.
If you want to hone an edge at 30º just hold it at 30º.
Hmm, maybe a diagram would help?

Hi Jacob

I am able to grind a primary bevel angle quite accurately - and more importantly, in a repeatable manner. This is shown in the link I provided earlier (8" grinder with Tormek attachment). Grinding on the primary bevel maintains the angle.

Cheshirechappie, I don't believe that this thread has morphed into a speed competition. The issue of speed may, nevertheless, be a factor in deciding if a system is for you, or not. I find my system is right for me now, and it has been this way for about a decade (just changing from a Tormek to a CBN wheel on a 8" grinder in this time). Perhaps it will remain so, perhaps it may change. Although sharpening is not much of an interest of mine, it is the starting point for all woodworking. As such, I always pay attention to what others do. Trying to find an objective method of comparing systems is important. Speed and efficiency are objective variables.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Cheshirechappie]

One thing the poll has shown without any shadow of doubt is that there are all sorts of methods and variations of methods, all of which work satisfactorily for those using them.

In other words, it's categorical proof that there isn't One True Way of freehand sharpening.

(....which may have been BB's 'agenda' :lol: )

 

[ED65]

We were asked to vote on a grinding method. I did mention side-to-side honing as my preference, with honing on the hollow. S-to-S is a honing method and was not paired with this.

Yes, um, I read the thread after voting.

So you find any problems with the leading or trailing side of the bevel wearing faster with this method on wider blades? Basically anything around the size of a bench-plane iron. I think I would use this method more if I didn't have a (slight) issue with this, but saying it out loud I'm sure it's just that I need to practice it more. All together I've not done it in total for an hour, which isn't exactly long enough to gain proficiency!

 

[ED65]

In other words, it's categorical proof that there isn't One True Way of freehand sharpening.

Well I think most are aware that only those who had drunk their own Kool-Aid (or that of their teacher perhaps) believed there was one anyway.

 

[Corneel]

I often hone at a skewing angle. It seems to allow for a more natural body position. And it helps when honing wide irons on a narrow stone.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Cheshirechappie, I don't believe that this thread has morphed into a speed competition. The issue of speed may, nevertheless, be a factor in deciding if a system is for you, or not. I find my system is right for me now, and it has been this way for about a decade (just changing from a Tormek to a CBN wheel on a 8" grinder in this time). Perhaps it will remain so, perhaps it may change. Although sharpening is not much of an interest of mine, it is the starting point for all woodworking. As such, I always pay attention to what others do. Trying to find an objective method of comparing systems is important. Speed and efficiency are objective variables.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well, it did get a bit close to it, and in keeping with somebody mentioning the light-hearted nature of the thread, I thought I'd try and stop it becoming too 'heavy', that's all.

Speed may be an issue for someone earning their living, though for them speed and efficiency usually come with repeated practice. For those of us enjoying our leisure hours in the shed, I think it's probably best ignored (at least at first), or at any rate placed firmly second to getting comfortable with an effective method of getting edges sharp enough.

 

[AndyT]

Some of us already know that many different methods work.

Three years back, Dodge and Chrispy generously organised an event where several different methods were set up and demonstrated by forum members so we could all see the evidence for ourselves.

Anyone wanting more information about sharpening can read 11 pages worth here


ukw-sharpening-bonanza-get-together-t67911.html


My only disappointment with the day was that neither BugBear nor Jacob was able to be there.

 

[D_W]

Some of us already know that many different methods work.

I would venture to guess that the number is very close to all of us. I guess it's a study in personalities to find on forums, who is the type who is insistent and discriminating vs. who is the usual conciliator with "everything works well".

And who often pretends to be the insistent discriminating type, but it's more of a work than a shoot (to use pro wrestling terms) - I am the last type. If you can learn to do something better and more efficiently, then unless that thing is the end in itself, it's worth learning. If you refuse to, it's not the end of the world.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

We were asked to vote on a grinding method. I did mention side-to-side honing as my preference, with honing on the hollow. S-to-S is a honing method and was not paired with this.

Yes, um, I read the thread after voting.

So you find any problems with the leading or trailing side of the bevel wearing faster with this method on wider blades? Basically anything around the size of a bench-plane iron. I think I would use this method more if I didn't have a (slight) issue with this, but saying it out loud I'm sure it's just that I need to practice it more. All together I've not done it in total for an hour, which isn't exactly long enough to gain proficiency!

I've used side sharpening for many years. It is a stable way to hold a blade, and offers good control. I have not experienced any problems.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Sean Hellman]

I often hone at a skewing angle. It seems to allow for a more natural body position. And it helps when honing wide irons on a narrow stone.

One that I use all the time, I find that the chosen angle is easy to keep this way. Also elbows tight into the body and move from the hips and legs. The upper body is fixed in place just like a jig.

 

[MIGNAL]

And another, skew. Just seems more natural to do it that way.

 

[D_W]

skew also. It lowers the chance of gouging stones or rolling an edge.

 

[bugbear]

skew also. It lowers the chance of gouging stones or rolling an edge.

What do you mean by "rolling an edge"?

Please expand/clarify.

BugBear

 

[D_W]

Rolling means accidentally letting the iron tip up so that the bevel gets too steep at the very tip.

It's a term I borrowed from razoring. If you strop and accidentally let the spine of a straight razor lift up, it can ruin a razor edge in one stroke...."rolling the edge".

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But ... but ... but ... round bevels good, flat bevels evil ...

 

[swagman]

If its common practice to use a grinding jig to work an accurate primary bevel ; why is then deemed unsavoury practice by some to use a honing jig to obtain a similar accuracy with the secondary bevel. As someone who hones freehand; I have no concerns at all with others choosing to use a jig. It is the final result that matters most; and not necessarily the technique being used to achieve that outcome.