my daughter has a damp walk in her kitchen. The builder she has contacted has recommended dry rods. I know nothing about them, do they work?
Dry rods
- Thread starter paulrbarnard
- Start date
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Google gave me this
https://safeguardstore.co.uk/dryrod...MI-K-v9fbThQMV8ppQBh02rA5KEAAYASAAEgKu3_D_BwE
Has a BBA certification…so must have been demonstrated to be effective
https://safeguardstore.co.uk/dryrod...MI-K-v9fbThQMV8ppQBh02rA5KEAAYASAAEgKu3_D_BwE
Has a BBA certification…so must have been demonstrated to be effective
I found the same site but they are of course selling them.
The certification is encouraging though.
I would recommend taking a look at this site:
https://www.heritage-house.org/news/rising-damp-is-a-myth-says-former-rics-chief.html
Rising damp is not really a thing and you will usually be able to trace the real cause with some investigation. I live in an old house and I have spent the last few years repairing all of the damage caused by generations of "damp cure", which includes the rods, copper strips, and many other snake oil remedies.
https://www.heritage-house.org/news/rising-damp-is-a-myth-says-former-rics-chief.html
Rising damp is not really a thing and you will usually be able to trace the real cause with some investigation. I live in an old house and I have spent the last few years repairing all of the damage caused by generations of "damp cure", which includes the rods, copper strips, and many other snake oil remedies.
It’s a single wall Victorian extension that has been tackled multiple times. I posted a thread a while back about the tiles I had to put up and the wall was pretty much a sponge.
It’s a loosing battle really, especially as they have no budget, but the latest builder they called in recommended these dry rods and I’m looking for opinions as I’ve never heard of them before.
It’s a loosing battle really, especially as they have no budget, but the latest builder they called in recommended these dry rods and I’m looking for opinions as I’ve never heard of them before.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Sorry can’t help with dry rods but I read an article recently that agreed with what @af99 said, rising damp is not what causes damp problems, nearly always penetrating - rain, or condensation. I meant to do an experiment that it suggested, put a column of bricks in a tray of water for a long period and see if the water rose up or not.
We had a problem in a solid wall that wasn’t fixed with the rising damp merchants, eventually pinned it down to bad flaunching and rain coming down a chimney flue.
Ian
We had a problem in a solid wall that wasn’t fixed with the rising damp merchants, eventually pinned it down to bad flaunching and rain coming down a chimney flue.
Ian
thetyreman
Established Member
I'm not convinced by it myself, be very sceptical of these things, my common sense tells me it can't possibly fix that problem, 'tanking' walls just traps moisture into the wall as well, I would be looking at other problems such as leaky drainpipes under the ground, guttering, cracks in the external mortar where rain can get in, has the DPM been connected by snots in the mortar that fell down the cavity? check all plumbing and also has the ground level been raised from the original level? is there adequate ventilation, has it ever been repointed in cement when it should have been lime? that kind of thing.
I'm skeptical about rising damp not existing. My daughter's partner, a builder, showed me photos of the ground floor of a building that had flooded (the plumber hadn't pressure tested before their concreting) - the water had soaked the concrete and marked 18"s or so up the skim. How did it get there if if damp doesn't rise?
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Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Plaster is know to suck up moisture like a sponge, but apparently brickwork doesn't.
It's an interesting subject, to be sure.
It's an interesting subject, to be sure.
all bricks are not equal
Hack the plaster off the walls, give it a couple of coats on tanking slurry then replaster using renderlight and multifinish. It works, I've done it on probably 20 houses now and never had any problems afterwards.
I'd have thought the mortar between the bricks would?
johnnyb
Established Member
Damp is only a thing when it affects a decorative surface. Many many old houses are damp meter damp. Even damp meters aren't infallible we used carbide testers to foil the soluble salts in damp properties which were in themselves hygroscopic! Not at all straightforward but as a previous poster suggested mostly it's A simple cause.
HOJ
Established Member
I've always been a skeptic of damp treatments, in my own experience, in my 19th century cottage with solid 9" walls, we had damp appearing at low level, after 20 years of living here without any signs, got hold of a damp expert his answer was Rising damp, because of no DPC, recommended the dry rods, I did some, literally, digging around, found a leaking water pipe, fixed that and not had a problem since.
The same story applied to a pal of mine, in his 18th century cottage, that turned out to be a bad joint on a waste soil pipe stack connection, by the time I got involved the Damp man had already been and charged £600.00 for the privilege.
The same story applied to a pal of mine, in his 18th century cottage, that turned out to be a bad joint on a waste soil pipe stack connection, by the time I got involved the Damp man had already been and charged £600.00 for the privilege.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Well, not really.
Lime mortar lets the moisture evaporate out between the courses and cement mortar is pretty much impervious. Small gaps and shrinkage cracks in cement mortar can aid the passage of liquid moisture, thobut.
Current thinking is, that the rise of liquid moisture stops at about two brick courses above the level of the ground due to the lack of hydrostatic pressure, evaporation from the surface of the building element and gravity doing its thing.
The theory is, that for moisture, in the form of a liquid to pass through a brick, the pores in the brick need to connect with each other and form a tunnel through the thickness of the brick.
Edit:
Like a lot of things connected with old buildings, the research is ongoing and continuously developing new theories about how historic materials and construction methods actually work. Adding modern materials, construction techniques and the demands of modern lifestyles to historic buildings, only serves to complicate matters.
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thetyreman
Established Member
don't get me started on cavity wall insulation as well in old properties, if it gets wet you're buggered, 'free' grants are never free are they, the gov knew this in the 80s and they know it now, older buildings were not designed to have it in there, I think there should be a compensation scheme, it's as bad as the post office scandal.
yngndrw
Established Member
As with most things, there's not a single answer. I do firmly disagree with the concept that there's no such thing as rising damp though. I think the lremise of the message, that there is sometimes another explanation has been lost as the message has been passed on. I've seen it first hand.
The usual advice to first check for leaks is sound. (Leaking pipe in or near a wall of floor, leaking gutters) Also check that your drainage is working outside. (Our gutters were just going into the ground right next to the foundations, which increased the ground water right by the walls. The solid brick wall pulled water up out of the ground and wet patches appeared a meter high along the entire lenght of the wall including an internal section - Rising damn by definition)
Modern building materials and methods do work, but you have to tackle all sources of damp at the same time which is why people end up trapping damp. You need to tackle rising damp (Check your drains, ground water, add a damp proof course or french drains) and penetrating damp. (If you have a cavity it can't be bridged and you need working cavity trays and weep vents, if you have solid walls your pointing should be in good order and you could render the wall) once your wall is dry and you've removed the sources of water, the problem has gone.
But the main point I'm trying to make is that you need to tackle all of the sources of water and not just give the water that gets into the wall somewhere to go as that doesn't fix the root of the problem. Modern building methods work but you have to understand that there's a whole system in place not just one or two things. It is possible although quite extreme for a full house, to build an inner skin and create a cavity which is actually exactly what we are going to do when we convert our garage.
In short, adding a damp proof course may or may not resolve your issue, but you need to find out what the source of the water is. The statement "Rising damp doesn't exist" is simply the tag line to sell a book, don't fall for it but also don't think that rising damp is the only source of damp as it also penetrates.
The usual advice to first check for leaks is sound. (Leaking pipe in or near a wall of floor, leaking gutters) Also check that your drainage is working outside. (Our gutters were just going into the ground right next to the foundations, which increased the ground water right by the walls. The solid brick wall pulled water up out of the ground and wet patches appeared a meter high along the entire lenght of the wall including an internal section - Rising damn by definition)
Modern building materials and methods do work, but you have to tackle all sources of damp at the same time which is why people end up trapping damp. You need to tackle rising damp (Check your drains, ground water, add a damp proof course or french drains) and penetrating damp. (If you have a cavity it can't be bridged and you need working cavity trays and weep vents, if you have solid walls your pointing should be in good order and you could render the wall) once your wall is dry and you've removed the sources of water, the problem has gone.
But the main point I'm trying to make is that you need to tackle all of the sources of water and not just give the water that gets into the wall somewhere to go as that doesn't fix the root of the problem. Modern building methods work but you have to understand that there's a whole system in place not just one or two things. It is possible although quite extreme for a full house, to build an inner skin and create a cavity which is actually exactly what we are going to do when we convert our garage.
In short, adding a damp proof course may or may not resolve your issue, but you need to find out what the source of the water is. The statement "Rising damp doesn't exist" is simply the tag line to sell a book, don't fall for it but also don't think that rising damp is the only source of damp as it also penetrates.
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Lard
Established Member
50 years ago we inherited a 200 yr old farmhouse. Outer walls were up to 30 inches thick. Double built-- outer and inner limestone walls with centre filled with rubble.
On the inside, there was a high water mark about 3-4 feet high. Even on the internal walls.
The whole structure just rested on the earth-- no foundations or dpc!
We dug under the wall, one side at a time, just 3 feet along , in sections,to avoid collapsing. We would then put plastic fertiliser bags under the overhanging wall and fill in underneath with concrete.
We did this inside and outside.
This took up about 3 years , coming home from work, every evening ,and getting the pickaxe to hack out each stretch. No kids and plenty of ignorance!!
No Aldi either for cheap battery hammer drills!
Or kangos.
Now we have no high water marks on the wallpaper, except for the one internal wall that we reckoned would be "ok".
Previous to our occupation,there were no gutters- so a lot of ground damp. We reroofed, and guttered, and concreted a 5 ft apron sloping away from the external walls.
From the amount of mould behind the 4ft high panels along the internal walls, I imagine the house must have been highly toxic to the previous occupants. They are all dead- so proves one point!!!
Just a long way to say that " rising damp" does exist.
On the inside, there was a high water mark about 3-4 feet high. Even on the internal walls.
The whole structure just rested on the earth-- no foundations or dpc!
We dug under the wall, one side at a time, just 3 feet along , in sections,to avoid collapsing. We would then put plastic fertiliser bags under the overhanging wall and fill in underneath with concrete.
We did this inside and outside.
This took up about 3 years , coming home from work, every evening ,and getting the pickaxe to hack out each stretch. No kids and plenty of ignorance!!
No Aldi either for cheap battery hammer drills! Or kangos.Now we have no high water marks on the wallpaper, except for the one internal wall that we reckoned would be "ok".
Previous to our occupation,there were no gutters- so a lot of ground damp. We reroofed, and guttered, and concreted a 5 ft apron sloping away from the external walls.
From the amount of mould behind the 4ft high panels along the internal walls, I imagine the house must have been highly toxic to the previous occupants. They are all dead- so proves one point!!!
Just a long way to say that " rising damp" does exist.
please see my thread on damp issues in Victorian dining room.
In summary, from first hand experience of fixing a major damp issue:
Penetrating damp is a big cause, root causes need to fixed. e.g. gutter, floor too high outside, etc.
Rising damp 100% is real, and if you don't have a DPC, will make your walls damp. If your DPC is bridged, i.e. render or flooring is connecting the walls above and below the DPC, the damp will spread upwards. (I don't understand why rising damp is even a debate)
@paulrbarnard can you please post plenty of pictures, inside and outside, of the wall in question? and perhaps a wider view of the outside so we can see what's around the wall?
In summary, from first hand experience of fixing a major damp issue:
Penetrating damp is a big cause, root causes need to fixed. e.g. gutter, floor too high outside, etc.
Rising damp 100% is real, and if you don't have a DPC, will make your walls damp. If your DPC is bridged, i.e. render or flooring is connecting the walls above and below the DPC, the damp will spread upwards. (I don't understand why rising damp is even a debate)
@paulrbarnard can you please post plenty of pictures, inside and outside, of the wall in question? and perhaps a wider view of the outside so we can see what's around the wall?
