Hi all - I have noticed a fair bit of PV solar panel knowledge on this forum so hoping someone might have a view on this. We have a solar panel installation of 12 'Sunpower' panels (configured as 2 strings of 6 panels) matched with a Sunny Boy inverter. It was installed 9 years ago and has worked well. At the end of last year I noticed that one of the panels seemed to have been struck by something and was cracked. No sign of what hit it and the panel seemed to be unaffected. I contacted the installer but he is no longer in the business. I sent photos to Sunpower but they are rejecting any manufacturing defect. In addition since the original installation our panel format is no longer made and any Sunpower replacement will not fit into our installation. I have since covered the damaged panel in clear 2mm polythene in an attempt to keep it dry. So far it has worked fine but recently, during the particularly wet weather, I started seeing earthing/insulation errors so I am concerned that at some point it will fail and potentially disable the rest of my installation. Has anyone else had experience of this please? I am finding it difficult to find an installer interested in dealing with this and at the same time I am not sure what the simplest option is. The damaged panel is on the outside edge of the array and the panels themselves are on a single storey outbuilding. If, for example (and working at night on the disconnected system) I removed the panel from it's mounting can I then just unplug it and remove it without affecting the other 11 panels or is there a lot more to consider? Thanks for any ideas on this.
Cracked solar panel.
- Thread starter SteveH2
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When manufacture of a specific model of panel stops, someone has to buy up a stock and warehouse them against the need for spares, years away in the future. That's why obsolete panels cost way more than when they were still in production.
I would guess you will be able to find a replacement panel but it may be a bit tricky and £££.
Would the home insurance cover it ?
If all else fails, it may be possible to just wire it out and leave the array running at slightly lower power. That requires knowledge of the way the strings are connected to the inverer - into separate inputs with independent trackers or in parallel into a single input. If the strings are in parallel into a single input, you have to do the same to both, so wire out one panel from each and continue with two strings of 5. If they are into fully independent inputs, you can just disconnect and bypass the failed panel, possibly leaving it in place for cosmetics but that may not be safe and I can't advise you about it.
Do be aware that there could be 400+ volts DC on the cables connecting your panels and that is quite happy to kill you if you make a mistake. You'll be dead before the fall from the roof makes doubly sure.
I would search for the importers of the sunpower panels and speak to them about a spare.
Also ask for a list of approved installers. Sunpower give a long warranty but only if fitted by an installer who is registed with them in advance. Any competent solar outfit should be able to swap out a panel. That's bread and butter work but both Sunpower and SMA sunny boy inverters are top quality products and I would try to use the manufacturers / importers of these to try and find a reputable installer.
I wonder if the MCS (microgeneration certification scheme) could also help with a list of installers registered with their scheme in your area ?
Salutory reminder for me here. I also have Sunpower panels bought because of their long warranty etc, and (by choice) won't be going back to my installer for any elective work in future. Do I buy a couple of spare panels while I can still get them at a fair price in case the same happens to me ?
When manufacture of a specific model of panel stops, someone has to buy up a stock and warehouse them against the need for spares, years away in the future. That's why obsolete panels cost way more than when they were still in production.
I would guess you will be able to find a replacement panel but it may be a bit tricky and £££.
Would the home insurance cover it ?
If all else fails, it may be possible to just wire it out and leave the array running at slightly lower power. That requires knowledge of the way the strings are connected to the inverer - into separate inputs with independent trackers or in parallel into a single input. If the strings are in parallel into a single input, you have to do the same to both, so wire out one panel from each and continue with two strings of 5. If they are into fully independent inputs, you can just disconnect and bypass the failed panel, possibly leaving it in place for cosmetics but that may not be safe and I can't advise you about it.
Do be aware that there could be 400+ volts DC on the cables connecting your panels and that is quite happy to kill you if you make a mistake. You'll be dead before the fall from the roof makes doubly sure.
I would search for the importers of the sunpower panels and speak to them about a spare.
Also ask for a list of approved installers. Sunpower give a long warranty but only if fitted by an installer who is registed with them in advance. Any competent solar outfit should be able to swap out a panel. That's bread and butter work but both Sunpower and SMA sunny boy inverters are top quality products and I would try to use the manufacturers / importers of these to try and find a reputable installer.
I wonder if the MCS (microgeneration certification scheme) could also help with a list of installers registered with their scheme in your area ?
Salutory reminder for me here. I also have Sunpower panels bought because of their long warranty etc, and (by choice) won't be going back to my installer for any elective work in future. Do I buy a couple of spare panels while I can still get them at a fair price in case the same happens to me ?
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Not sure on the UK rules, but here, with a gridtie it has to be a licenced installer doing any repair work...
What is the actual panel ('Sunpower' have made a LOT of different panels over the years)- in many cases, secondhand panels are easy to get (at least here in Australia)- in fact that was the source of my own panels for my offgrid install (doesn't need to be done by a licenced installer, although I do have mine but in a different state lol)- bought 72x 250w panels off FB market place from an installer with a yard full of them lol- $27 each for a 250w panel... (all are the same brand and similar ages)- $1960 for 18kw worth...
In practice- although panels have a variety of Voc and Isc values, look at the specs label on the back of the panel and find something with the same(ish) values regardless of brand and it would work...
DON'T go by the wattage- it is those Voc and Isc values that will be the best guide to a replacement...
(note the top two in particular-190w versus 200w- yet vastly different Voc and Isc values!!!)
Depending on the particular Sunnyboy inverter in question- if it has dual MPPT controllers like some of the higher capacity ones- then yes, you could run it with one less panel in one series array without issue (slightly less power generated obviously), but if it is a single channel one and the series strings are simply paralleled, then no- you can't do it...
Thanks for your input guy, it's very helpful. Sideways, I haven't tried claiming but I assume that my house insurance would cover it. I am sure that my original installer was registered with Sunpower, he has been very professional and supportive over the years but as I said for some reason he is no longer responsive and all contact details on his website site have been deleted....
I have, by recommendation from a neighbour, got another installer looking into whether or not they can find a replacement Sunpower panel (it's a 327Wp) but I gather than most PV installers are flat out at the moment so getting much priority for a single panel patch is not easy. If nothing comes of that I will certainly trying contacting Sunpower as you suggest
Dabop - interesting what you say about Sunnyboy inverters, I will certainly research the capabilities of the model I have but presumably (if I am understanding you correctly) if my inverter is single chanel then 'Sideways' analysis applies, IE I would need to take one panel out of each string to keep it balanced (working?). If on the other hand the inverter has dual MPPT controllers it is feasible to disconnect the damaged panel and the rest will work normally (or would it still be necessary to establish whether or not the strings have been installed in parallel?)
I will also endeavour to locate the Voc and Isc values to see if I can locate alternative panel that would fit. It did occur to me that given the position of the damaged panel - outside corner of bottom row - (and ignoring the slightly negative effect on aesthetics) perhaps another Sunpower panel of a slightly different dimension could be put in place even if it meant a bit of re-engineering of the existing bracket???
Thanks again, guys, for your input and time.
I have, by recommendation from a neighbour, got another installer looking into whether or not they can find a replacement Sunpower panel (it's a 327Wp) but I gather than most PV installers are flat out at the moment so getting much priority for a single panel patch is not easy. If nothing comes of that I will certainly trying contacting Sunpower as you suggest
Dabop - interesting what you say about Sunnyboy inverters, I will certainly research the capabilities of the model I have but presumably (if I am understanding you correctly) if my inverter is single chanel then 'Sideways' analysis applies, IE I would need to take one panel out of each string to keep it balanced (working?). If on the other hand the inverter has dual MPPT controllers it is feasible to disconnect the damaged panel and the rest will work normally (or would it still be necessary to establish whether or not the strings have been installed in parallel?)
I will also endeavour to locate the Voc and Isc values to see if I can locate alternative panel that would fit. It did occur to me that given the position of the damaged panel - outside corner of bottom row - (and ignoring the slightly negative effect on aesthetics) perhaps another Sunpower panel of a slightly different dimension could be put in place even if it meant a bit of re-engineering of the existing bracket???
Thanks again, guys, for your input and time.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Have you considered seeing if the crack can be repaired? I wonder if the process, or at least the resin, use to fill windshield (windscreen to you) stone chips might fix the panel. One of the automotive glass companies in your area might be able to answer the question. They might also do it to see if they can so they can add to their services if successful.
Pete
Pete
Its worth checking around with some installers- especially the smaller ones, rather than big 'chain' ones- if the UK ones are anything like the Aussie ones, they often have many older ones sitting around just taking up space, and the sunpowers were a popular brand for gridties- it's highly likely that there are thousands lying around ...
If it is indeed a dual channel model- then you can literally just bypass that panel and just leave it to run as is yes, but if it is a single channel one, then you will need to trace the panels wiring, and subtract one from the other series string to match yes...
It likely is a dual channel model- the 4kw Sonnyboy (which would match nicely with your 12x 327w panels with a total rating of 3924w and its max input of 4200w) is a dual channel, and 5x panels from the remaining panels in that string would give you a Mpp total voltage of 273.5v- which is still well above the 175v minimum of the Sonnyboy 4kw (if your Sonnyboy is a 4000TL, then these are its specs)
The easiest way to do this yourself (although it technically should be done by a licenced installer- coughs) would simply be to get a short MC4 'patch cord' or extension cord , turn off the arrays DC breakers/isolators and then turn off the inverters AC breaker as well and simply unplug the broken panel and fit the new cable between the cables you unplug, leaving the panel in place will keep it looking visually the same until a suitable replacement is found...
This would give you about a 8% loss in generated power...
Such cables are readily available online and quite cheaply (this one has two cable as it is an 'extension set' but you would only need one of the two...)
Plug it in, turn on the AC breaker first, and then the DC breaker and check the power output of the inverter...
If it is indeed a dual channel model- then you can literally just bypass that panel and just leave it to run as is yes, but if it is a single channel one, then you will need to trace the panels wiring, and subtract one from the other series string to match yes...
It likely is a dual channel model- the 4kw Sonnyboy (which would match nicely with your 12x 327w panels with a total rating of 3924w and its max input of 4200w) is a dual channel, and 5x panels from the remaining panels in that string would give you a Mpp total voltage of 273.5v- which is still well above the 175v minimum of the Sonnyboy 4kw (if your Sonnyboy is a 4000TL, then these are its specs)
The easiest way to do this yourself (although it technically should be done by a licenced installer- coughs) would simply be to get a short MC4 'patch cord' or extension cord , turn off the arrays DC breakers/isolators and then turn off the inverters AC breaker as well and simply unplug the broken panel and fit the new cable between the cables you unplug, leaving the panel in place will keep it looking visually the same until a suitable replacement is found...
This would give you about a 8% loss in generated power...
Such cables are readily available online and quite cheaply (this one has two cable as it is an 'extension set' but you would only need one of the two...)
Plug it in, turn on the AC breaker first, and then the DC breaker and check the power output of the inverter...
Dabop- many thanks. I am still hoping that I can get it sorted by a professional but you have given me a lot of useful food for thought.
Inspector - that's a good idea. I did originally think just of cleaning it and using silicone but a slight craze effect runs out from the actual impact over a fair bit of the panel so I wasn't really sure whether or not I could properly seal It. Ditto siliconing a sheet of acrylic over the top I wasn't sure that I could guarantee there would not be condensation under it - hence went for the plastic and left It open at the bottom for air circulation. The plastic it is currently covered in is the same sort of clear polythene used for things like windows in tents so pretty tough.
Inspector - that's a good idea. I did originally think just of cleaning it and using silicone but a slight craze effect runs out from the actual impact over a fair bit of the panel so I wasn't really sure whether or not I could properly seal It. Ditto siliconing a sheet of acrylic over the top I wasn't sure that I could guarantee there would not be condensation under it - hence went for the plastic and left It open at the bottom for air circulation. The plastic it is currently covered in is the same sort of clear polythene used for things like windows in tents so pretty tough.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Curious if you know or have an idea of what could have hit the panels? Rock from a lawn mower. Kids or a grouchy neighbour? Seagulls dropping clams or mussels to crack them open? Don't laugh they use to do just that to the membrane roof of the building I worked in. Made small cuts in it that had to be gooped every year. Birds thought it was pavement.
Pete
Pete
Hi Pete - There looks to be a small impact dint on the panel but i could not find any evidence of what hit it so whatever it was must have bounce off. I understand that the glass is toughened but that the silicon cells are bonded to it hence, I suppose, the slight crazing stretching out from the impact over probably at least a third of the panel. I am assuming that something did hit it as Sunpower rejected any sort of manufacturing defect but still a mystery to me....
Steve
Steve
