Chisels n planes help!

[Just4Fun]

Oh, and my chisels were cheap when I bought them new in the 70s. They're great.

I have a variety of chisels, mainly old tools that I inherited with Sheffield steel or Swedish steel which is thought to be good quality hereabouts. I have had numerous people say they are or should be good tools. None of those people give a second glance to the cheap plastic-handled no-name chisels I bought with money I received for my birthday when I was 13 in 1972, yet I think those are my best chisels. They sharpen nicely and seem to keep an edge well. They are the chisels I prefer to use for most joinery tasks. I have no experience with expensive chisels so I can't say how they compare but I am happy enough with my cheap tools.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I believe the point here is that which Custard makes on another thread - that the expensive options wouldn't make much difference to the vast majority of us. That is the point, not whether they are n% better or not.
I use mainly old Marples, Sorbys and Wards, thet were all under £4 - but they were expensive when they were made as D.W. said. I also have 75p "beaters".

 

[iNewbie]

I'm not exclusively talking about old chisels. There are some great mid range chisels available new. Hell, Paul Sellers sings the praises of a pack of Lidl or Aldi chisels, and they cost £12 or £15 for 4. No, they're not soft....they're good steel apparently. My basic point is that people buy expensive stuff thinking they are getting something better than what they've already got, or something which is readily available much cheaper, and generally they get something prettier, but no more effective. You can apply that to all sorts of tools, although I was talking specifically about chisels when I said it.

Oh, and my chisels were cheap when I bought them new in the 70s. They're great.

Sellers sings the praises of Ashley Isles, too... He'll even talk of the differences of why he thinks it might be better - like most people who like buying tools he's no different and has a cupboard full...

https://paulsellers.com/2016/10/uk-chisel-like/

In some cases you are getting a better mouse-trap. They're aren't all identical in shape or materials. Personally I couldn't give a rats what people buy with their money - I'm certainly not sitting down and pondering whether someone buys their xmas turkey from Fortnam and Mason...

 

[D_W]

The Ashley iles chisels are miles better than the Aldi chisels, and they employ people in the first world. But, if the price isn't something you would pay, then that can be the end of it with no argument.

Even if I had a set of iles chisels (I do), I'd still buy the Aldi chisels to play toolmaker and grind to needed shapes.

 

[Chip shop]

It sounds like you guys are trying to find an argument, but you don't know what to disagree about.

To the OP; chisels are about the simplest form of handtool...added to that, no matter where you get them from (B&Q/Aldi/Lidl/Axminster/WorkshopHeaven/D&M and many other tool shops are avalable) the steel is generally harder than the wood you're cutting, so just get what is available.

Planes are a bit more complex(as they've got bits that move about, and that). I'd say you could do a lot worse than tossing off the idea of a fancy block and praps getting a second hand No.4 which'll do most jobs. I have a LA block and rarely use it.

If I was to advocate spending serious money, it would be on a really good combi square and a couple of trad marking gauges.

 

[richarddownunder]

Hi. I dont think the OP mentioned a budget restriction (and mentioned LN), so although all the recommendations for second hand Record planes, Ward chisels from car boot sales etc are great, I have done my bit for current UK manufacturing (and don't even live in the UK) and fairly recently bought Clifton 51/2 and block plane and have had Ashley Iles bench chisels for years. Are the chisels better than some cheaper brands or old good quality chisels? Not sure, I'm not really interested in comparing them but I enjoy them for dovetailing as they are nice thin blades. The Clifton 51/2 is a wonderful plane, and also a joy to use - I was using it yesterday and compared with my oldish US Stanley 6, its is a huge step up in quality even though the 6 works OK. The block plane is also beautifully made although quite big and heafty. So it all depends on what you want to pay and whether you would enjoy a Clifton (or a LN or LV) sufficiently over a lifetime to fork out for one or two. Personally, I did and don't regret it a bit - I figure its peanuts over many years of use.

Cheers
Richard

 

[richarddownunder]

[

I've got chisels that were a dollar each (they're actually quite useful for some things) and I have a chisel that was about $225. And a whole lot of stuff in the middle. I think the Ashley iles chisels are lovely, and in the land of no VAT, they were about $26 each. I think that's a bargain if you just want to get a set of chisels and use them, and they have real bonafide first world people making them.

Agree completely =D>

 

[dp341]

I used to be a regular here, left when the constant arguing over new / old, cheap / expensive, how to sharpen etc. got on my nerves. Glad to see nothing’s changed. [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY]

I’ve got chisels of each type and they all work great when setup right and used with care and a bit of skill. Planes in many cases too, although I’d avoid really cheap new ones and old ones that are in particularly bad nick. But then I’d rather spend my time cutting wood than cleaning rust, nevertheless I can really see the appeal to cleaning up an old tool, just don’t have the time.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ED65]

It sounds like you guys are trying to find an argument, but you don't know what to disagree about.

Does a bit! Thanks for putting into words what I was thinking.

 

[Jacob]

....... The Clifton 51/2 is a wonderful plane, and also a joy to use - I was using it yesterday and compared with my oldish US Stanley 6, its is a huge step up in quality even though the 6 works OK. ....

Comparing a Clifton 5 1/2 with a Record 5 1/2 would make more sense. The size of the 6 makes it surprisingly different.
I sold on my Clifton 4. Too heavy, too thick blade for sharpening, bed rock system not particularly time saving, no advantage over a Record 4 except it looks nicer, too much money invested in one tool.

 

[JWD]

OK guys thanks very much!

I've changed my plans a little bit:
im thinking a set of AI chisels - my rationale being that i will then have a perfect set of matching (and very functional) chisels i can build a tool-chest around and my family can keep them for generations. I have a couple of ward and a sorby chisel that i love and i won't be getting rid of any time soon but i have the opportunity to invest in some brand new tools for once.

I'm also thinking of changing the plane to the LN no 62, as a good all rounder that i can just get to using straight away. I have a stan. No.4 which took a full day to bring even close to flat!

I'd love nothing more than to spend my days fettling old tools to make them shiny and new but i get about 2 days at home from uni every three weeks so i should probably fill it with actual woodworking!

Any further advice is thoroughly appreciated
joe

 

[Just4Fun]

The Clifton 51/2 is a wonderful plane, and also a joy to use - I was using it yesterday and compared with my oldish US Stanley 6, its is a huge step up in quality even though the 6 works OK.

Can you write more about that? How exactly is the quality better? Having no experience of anything but cheap planes I don't know what I am missing.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"... my rationale being that I will then have a perfect set of matching ... chisels ..."

Just about all my chisels and turning tools (certainly all the rehandled ones) have different handles - I find identical handles irritating.

 

[Jacob]

The Clifton 51/2 is a wonderful plane, and also a joy to use - I was using it yesterday and compared with my oldish US Stanley 6, its is a huge step up in quality even though the 6 works OK.

Can you write more about that? How exactly is the quality better? Having no experience of anything but cheap planes I don't know what I am missing.

Clifton are replicas of Stanleys but built more solidly, heavier, better engineered, better finish - polished in parts, much nicer looking. But non of this makes them a better plane compared to a properly set up Stanley or Record, in fact the weight is a disadvantage, not to mention the price!
The principle attraction of the various posh plane offerings is that they are relatively fool proof and hence well suited to the wealthy amateur. But after enough use they will need attention just like all the others.
They are ductile steel which is flagged up as a plus, but it isn't, it's easily marked and just cheaper to make compared to the harder castings of the old planes

 

[AndyT]

The Clifton 51/2 is a wonderful plane, and also a joy to use - I was using it yesterday and compared with my oldish US Stanley 6, its is a huge step up in quality even though the 6 works OK.

Can you write more about that? How exactly is the quality better? Having no experience of anything but cheap planes I don't know what I am missing.

Clifton are replicas of Stanleys but built more solidly, heavier, better engineered, better finish - polished in parts, much nicer looking. But non of this makes them a better plane compared to a properly set up Stanley or Record, in fact the weight is a disadvantage, not to mention the price!
The principle attraction of the various posh plane offerings is that they are relatively fool proof and hence well suited to the wealthy amateur. But after enough use they will need attention just like all the others.
They are ductile steel which is flagged up as a plus, but it isn't, it's easily marked and just cheaper to make compared to the harder castings of the old planes

Clifton planes are made of cast iron.

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... html#tab-1

 

[MartinCox]

Contributors such as MattRoberts, dp341, chip shop and ED65 are all alluding to the same point. I find it interesting to see if a contributor who is so sure of his position, skill and experience that he says you must do this; must not use that or whatever, has posted examples of work that he has done.

Whilst everyone can have a different view on design - much of which is opinion and taste - most would be able to see if a piece of work has been executed badly, competently or brilliantly. Then others, particularly those on a learning curve, can use that knowledge so that the contributor who feels so able to tell the rest of us what they see as definitive factsabout saws, chisels, marking gauges or whatever, can look at the posted work and wonder if he couldn’t execute a good joint or cut to a line, what credibility can be placed upon their opinion.

I certainly find that test helpful when evaluating whether my time is well spent or wasted reading a contributor’s post.

 

[Jacob]

......
Can you write more about that? How exactly is the quality better? Having no experience of anything but cheap planes I don't know what I am missing.

Clifton are replicas of Stanleys but built more solidly, heavier, better engineered, better finish - polished in parts, much nicer looking. But non of this makes them a better plane compared to a properly set up Stanley or Record, in fact the weight is a disadvantage, not to mention the price!
The principle attraction of the various posh plane offerings is that they are relatively fool proof and hence well suited to the wealthy amateur. But after enough use they will need attention just like all the others.
They are ductile steel which is flagged up as a plus, but it isn't, it's easily marked and just cheaper to make compared to the harder castings of the old planes

Clifton planes are made of cast iron.

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... html#tab-1

Whatever it is it's softer than the old planes and scratches easily. I know that - I gouged a great scratch across mine when I skated over a nail. Wouldn't have left a mark on my old Records/Stanleys.

 

[D_W]

Whatever it is it's softer than the old planes and scratches easily. I know that - I gouged a great scratch across mine when I skated over a nail. Wouldn't have left a mark on my old Records/Stanleys.

I've had a lot of old planes that had a huge gouge from a nail (this is the states, though, so we usually employ people who do such things in rank and file jobs here). None of them tolerate that well. Some are softer than others on the lap, though (millers falls planes yield iron particles much faster than stanley, for example).

I've seen it on LN planes, too, and it wasn't even me.

 

[richarddownunder]

....... The Clifton 51/2 is a wonderful plane, and also a joy to use - I was using it yesterday and compared with my oldish US Stanley 6, its is a huge step up in quality even though the 6 works OK. ....

Comparing a Clifton 5 1/2 with a Record 5 1/2 would make more sense. The size of the 6 makes it surprisingly different.
I sold on my Clifton 4. Too heavy, too thick blade for sharpening, bed rock system not particularly time saving, no advantage over a Record 4 except it looks nicer, too much money invested in one tool.

Hi Jacob. Yes, it would have been a better comparison but I dont have a record 51/2 . I was mostly comparing fit, finish and feel in use. The Clifton works a lot better. I was just using both on the same project and thought at the time what a difference there was. As for too heavy, too much mones invested in one tool, surely that is subjective. I dont mind either and as I said, if spending a bit on a tool gives me pleasure and I can afford it, then who is to say it is wrong. Its just an option and a bettter investment than many things I could be spending my cash on. The OP asked for opinions, I gave mine, I wasn't out for a debate or correction thanks.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Jacob]

....The OP asked for opinions, I gave mine, I wasn't out for a debate ....

Giving an opinion IS 'being out for a debate'.
I gave mine too - doesn't bother me to be disagreed with in a debate. :lol: