Chisels - how low can you go?

[Kalimna]

Andy - very interesting review. Though I have purchased tools that are in excess of Poundlands prices, I do so for aesthetic (and to an extent, sentimental) reasons. I also fail to see how such a review of a, essentially useful, tool can b met with derision of either the review or the tool itself.
Also, if you are serious Andy, I have a couple of Blue Spruce chisels that may serve as an interesting comparison. I would, however, want them back!

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Corneel]

The chisel under test had a remarkable piece of steel with a lousy handle. A handle can be made (rougly) by any beginner though. So afterall, not the best choice for a cash strapped beginner, but better then nothing. Holding out for some Aldi chisels might be a better bet.

Rehandling is an interesting idea, but you'd be at the mercy of the tang of course. Plus we don't know what the tempering is like.

You might be looking at a lot of work for a not very good, if impressively flat, chisel. Assuming that they're consistently flat.

A block of wood with a hole in one end is a handle. Maybe ease the edges a bit with some sandpaper.

The toolsnobs overhere should live for a while in a third world country and observe what can be done with Cumquats tools.

I am firmly in the toolsnob category myself. :lol:

 

[Jacob]

.....
A block of wood with a hole in one end is a handle. Maybe ease the edges a bit with some sandpaper....

Pieces of ash sapling make perfect handles with a hole already in place.

 

[Jason]

A block of wood with a hole in one end is a handle. Maybe ease the edges a bit with some sandpaper. Tool snob.

Oh. And there was me thinking the mechanical join between handle and chisel might be of some interest. So the new handle stays on. Tangs designed to fit a moulded plastic handle often being very different to those intended for wooden handles.

You know, I'm really not sure not gushing over a chisel whose handle is a poor fit and falls apart on the third use makes me a tool snob. Even if it is commendably flat.

 

[bugbear]

We used to use a sharpened nail. Chisel? Luxury!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Yorkshiremen_sketch

BugBear

 

[Corneel]

You're clearly overthinking this tang business, Jason. It's most probably a straight round bit of steel with some indentations. Drill a hole slightly undersize and hammer it onto the chisel.

And yes you are a toolsnob. Just like all of us. Man, I've watched furnjture makers in India Vietnam and Cambodja. They don't even have anything resembling a workbench.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I've seen homeless people eat from dustbins, so am I a food snob? Citing extremes which are outside expected parameters, cannot be used to define a point of view.

Expecting a tool to correctly perform to certain criteria is not tool snobbery.

Those craftsmen from the Far East are underprivileged and are doing the best they can with little. But their best is hampered by the poor working conditions and poor tools. I don't think hampering us in a similar way, is a sensible solution, neither is expecting their work to equal ours, which sadly it cannot, though not through lack of skil. My tools are quite ordinary, though tuned and looked after very well. I, admittedly have too many, but I don't think I can be acused of snobbery. In fact I reall don't like ostentation in tools. A beautiful tool for me is one that performs everything I need of it and no more. Fancy handles, shiny plating and engraving etc. is lost on me. A well made chisel, properly tempered, no machine marks, fine bevels, flat back polished an inch or so back from the poiny end, equally sharp, and an ash handle is a thing of beauty and the minimum you should expect from a tool. Also, the most you should want IMHO. A chisel with some, but not all of these is defective, so not considered as worth having, since I only require the fundamentals.

Mike.

 

[Corneel]

That's how I like my chisels too. I would add, preferably laminated.

But I don't equate some machinemarks or thick side bevels or a plastic handle to "defective". That's nonsence.

 

[MMUK]

 

[Jason]

I'm not sure it's 100% literary, but I'll take the tool snob moniker in the spirit it was meant. Which obviously wasn't mean spirited.

I don't much see the point of thick side bevels. Other than to make it look a bit like a bevelled edge chisel, which I presume sold for a premium back in the day.

Neither do I have a problem with a plastic handle. I'm personally very fond of some footprint chisels with bright red plastic handles in my keep. But I do have a problem with a poorly fitting plastic handle and one that reportedly breaks far too easily. I think it's the breaking and the bad fit that puts me off.

 

[Jacob]

.. But I do have a problem with a poorly fitting plastic handle and one that reportedly breaks far too easily.

Yebbut he did say he bought it as a sacrificial chisel (bricks and nails involved) so that's fine. Presumably a posh one would have got a bit wrecked too, especially if it had a wooden handle.
It seems LN socket chisels regularly shed their handles, as they haven't found a way of fixing them yet. Luckily they supply replacement handles, which would be very good of them except you have to buy them!

 

[AndyT]

Yebbut he did say he bought it as a sacrificial chisel (bricks and nails involved) so that's fine!

Not quite right...I actually said, right at the start,

"I bought this - purely for research, and for your benefit"

and I think I've had my money's worth!

 

[iNewbie]

.. But I do have a problem with a poorly fitting plastic handle and one that reportedly breaks far too easily.

Yebbut he did say he bought it as a sacrificial chisel (bricks and nails involved) so that's fine. Presumably a posh one would have got a bit wrecked too, especially if it had a wooden handle.
It seems LN socket chisels regularly shed their handles, as they haven't found a way of fixing them yet. Luckily they supply replacement handles, which would be very good of them except you have to buy them!

Materials and Workmanship are guaranteed for the life of the tool. LN stand behind their product and their customer service is exemplary. Contact customer services in Maine and I'd be surprised if they didn't ship you a new one. They went above and beyond for me on an issue and I'd not even bought it new!

 

[Jason]

It seems LN socket chisels regularly shed their handles, as they haven't found a way of fixing them yet...

Hold up. LN chisels are intentionally based on a Stanley design that's much used and highly regarded. It seems that hundreds of thousands of woodworkers over the last century actually appreciate the benefits (presumably superior balance, robustness and ease of repair) over the inconvenience of needing a squirt of hairspray.

I'm not sure the poundland chisel has yet achieved that kind of credential.

Though Jason suspects Jacob already knows this.

 

[Corneel]

"I bought this - purely for research, and for your benefit"

and I think I've had my money's worth!

:lol:

 

[Graham Orm]

Great thread Andy :wink: All good fun.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Rough grinding on the flat side means it cannot be sharpened without a lot of effort to remove the coarseness. Bevels on a bevel edged chisel should be fine enough to at least give sight lines for accurate joinery and preferably fine enough for dovetails and the like. These two things are not a lot to ask in a tool which should have them and IS defective without. I cannot use them without doing what the manufacturers should have done.

Having one or two good characteristics does not make a chisel useful if those that are lacking prevents the tool to be used fully. Even a cheap chisel such as the one being discussed must have at least a couple of these characteristics, otherwise it would not be recognisable as a chisel. But just having enough to be accurately described as a chisel, does not make it useful, I'm afraid, as a chisel. It seems the only good points of this example were 1 it was made of steel and 2 its back was flat. Not enough of the mere few necessary characteristics a chisel should have, especially considering the flat back issue is moot due to the coarse grinding preventing proper sharpening. The plastic handle was utterly defective, and although a good plastic handle would not be a complete disaster, it would likely be no less expensive to make than a simple wooden one of some lowly, but eminently suitable variety such as ash or hornbeam.

Regarding the LN socket handles; that method of affixing a handle is actually superb. However, the new Stanley sweetheart chisels they are based on are not quite good enough to make them a good but, either. They are extremely well machined, they look and feel superb, the steel is good and can be sharpened, the handles are great, the backs are extremely flat and very smooth. The shoulder is virtually un breakable because of the differential hardening and tempering. Everything I need except the bevels are not fine enough. Spoilt for a hap'eth of tar. Even mid priced tools are not necessarily a good bet, either. Would I pay double for a LN to get a tool with the last missing desirable feature; absolutely, if I had the money to spend. Correct tools are important. As it is, I will eventually regrind the Stanley's. #-o

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Yebbut he did say he bought it as a sacrificial chisel (bricks and nails involved) so that's fine!

Not quite right...I actually said, right at the start,

"I bought this - purely for research, and for your benefit"

and I think I've had my money's worth!

No Grayorm said it. I presume yours is still OK and doing fine woodwork on a daily basis. :lol:

 

[Jacob]

...
Regarding the LN socket handles; that method of affixing a handle is actually superb.

Except they drop off, which is why they sell spare handles. I've never had a handle drop off any chisel of mine. I'm sure you are right though - their handle fixing is actually superb, except for the dropping off-ness tendency. No doubt the MKIV model will remedy this.

.... Correct tools are important. ...

It's that word again - "correct" :lol:

To cut to the chase - Mike are you seriously saying that you couldn't do "fine woodwork" with this cheapo chisel? If not why not? Are you a beginner? - in which case just stick with it - you'll get there in the end, it's not about the tools.

 

[AndyT]

Just to clarify - the Poundland chisel may look like it has rough grinding marks but they are not deep. I spent only a few minutes on sharpening to a mirror finish. This may mean that the steel is not as hard as on proper chisels. The ding in the back suggests the same thing. Another reason why I was surprised how good the edge was and how it stayed sharp through the brief test I gave it.
Bevels are another matter but we have already had a very long discussion which there is no need to repeat. Suffice it to say that it's hard to find a modern chisel without some bevelling, but modern general purpose chisels are thicker than the sort of delicate tool I showed in the comparison photos.
For the sort of work I showed in the original post I can't see that it makes any difference whether there are bevels or not.
If I wanted to use this chisel for dovetails where there was no room to skew the tool I would grind the corners off a bit.