Body-grip cabled jigsaw

[Eric The Viking]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I went to have a look at the Makitas (4350/4351) last Tuesday, the local stockist being closest and with easy parking.

Both the handled and the body-grip ones are nicely made, but I came to the conclusion they are probably too hefty for my immediate needs, although jolly nice. The shop also has Bosch, and apart from the lack of an LED worklight, there was little to choose between them. I've struggled to find a Metabo stockist locally, but one of the annoyances is that both Makita and Metabo expect you to pay extra for a "Systainer" type of case (this is daft, as they supply blown moulded cases anyway, as standard). Bosch are just ridiculous in trying to be different to everyone else. Their system is just a confounded nuisance!

I am heartily fed up with blown-moulded cases because of the waste of space, the time wasted trying to get everything back in again after a job (it's almost always the cable!), and the fact there's usually no room for accessories (e.g. SDS bits on my drill case, and dust extraction adapters, etc. in the biscuit joiner's one).

But I digress, as usual. I've actually decided to go a quite different route. I've ordered one of these:

It uses Bosch's 10.8V Lithium-ion battery system. It's small, lightweight, probably more comfortable to hold, and dead handy for the main task, which is trimming 6mm ply for flooring, and it takes standard blades. It is a compromise, and I will need the bigger (4AH) battery for it if I use it for long periods, but it will go in with the other 10.8V tools, and there's less to lug about as a consequence.

It arrives later today, so I get to play with it over the week-end. I also got a selection of different blades, in the expectation that one or two designs will work much better than others for different jobs.

I feel a bit guilty about the change of tack, but I've learned a lot from the replies (not least that proper jigsaws all seem to use the same blade fitting!), and it's all been very helpful.

Thanks all.

E.

PS: I have the multi-tool in the same series. That benefited a lot from being carefully stripped down and having its oscillating gearbox well greased (it now runs cooler, more quietly, and, predictably, battery life is quite a bit better). I'll be checking the jigsaw to see if the mechanics get warm - a sign of insufficient lubrication. I suspect many manufacturers only use the bare minimum of grease, as you can't sell more tools if the old ones won't wear out!

PPS: Much as I like the system, it seems like Bosch's marketing department are starting to take the p*ss out of the ignorant. They now sell batteries that "go up to eleven" (er 12V, apparently), although the chemistry, and thus the battery behaviour, is identical to the 10.8V batteries (that they actually are).

The individual cells are 3.6V each and there are three of them per battery, in EVERY manufacturer's batteries. The sum isn't a hard one.

Milwaukee (probably amongst others) started this stupid trend by calling their 10.8V systems 12V (most probably using battery systems from the same factory as other manufacturers!). Now Bosch think this is a good idea, and have starting using new labelling saying "12V." At the same time, some of their batteries have almost doubled in price. Of course there is probably no connection between the two things... but I'll put my teacher's mortar board on for a moment:
'BOSCH ! PAY ATTENTION !
'THIS STUPIDITY DOES NOT IMPRESS ME AND HAS BEEN DULY NOTED.
'WRITE OUT 100 TIMES, "I CANNOT 'RE-BRAND' BASIC ELECTRO-CHEMISTRY TO BE A DIFFERENT VOLTAGE."
'THEN GO AND SIT AT THE BACK OF THE CLASS, UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO BEHAVE PROPERLY.'

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You're right about the cases - I passed a nice DeWalt one on as I would never again use it. The only things I have that are still in cases are my Biscuit jointer (as it's comparatively fragile), my SDS drill because in the case are a spirit level, drill bits (inc. long ones), plugs, chisels and core bits, and the glue gun because of the different glues and nozzles. I've just chucked out a really nice case that came with a £45 sander.

 

[MikeJhn]

Battery ratings are a bit of a nightmare, 3.6volt LiIo cells come off the charger at 4volts, but don't stay there long when being used, they quickly drop to 3.6volts and stabilise at that voltage until the cliff is reached where there is insufficient power to run the tool, the best LiIo cells available are the A123 systems Nanophosphate's, lots of clones now, but genuine ones can still be bought, slightly larger than a sub-C cell and 3.3volts and denoted ANR26650 on the green normally shrink wrap coating rated at 50amps continuous discharge and 120amps 10second burst, four of these will start a car.

Mike

 

[Eric The Viking]

Battery ratings are a bit of a nightmare, 3.6volt LiIo cells come off the charger at 4volts, but don't stay there long when being used, they quickly drop to 3.6volts and stabilise at that voltage until the cliff is reached where there is insufficient power to run the tool, the best LiIo cells available are the A123 systems Nanophosphate's, lots of clones now, but genuine ones can still be bought, slightly larger than a sub-C cell and 3.3volts and denoted ANR26650 on the green normally shrink wrap coating rated at 50amps continuous discharge and 120amps 10second burst, four of these will start a car.

It is amazing how far the technology has come on, minor explosive incidents notwithstanding. The Wikipedia page says that the costs dropped to around 1/10 between 1991-2005 (3Wh/$ in 2005).

What annoys me is that there has always been an accepted, standardised way of describing the working voltages, so there is no reason for all the nonsense. Wikipedia points out there are a range of chemistries all classed as Lithium-ion, but also says all have an operating voltage of 3.6-3.8V. All it does is make life awkward for the consumers. They might just as well describe car batteries as 13.8V (pick a voltage).

Those sub-C cells sound interesting. I have an occasionally-useful right-angled cordless drill/driver, that's not worth replacing. It would benefit from being re-celled (it's NiCd! and they're knackered). But the faff of reorganising the battery system for properly managing Lithium Ion puts me off a bit. It's most likely possible, but I'd still need to rig up temp sensing, etc. inside the battery pack (obviously there would be empty space though).

You've made me think... in a good way!

 

[MikeJhn]

Eric

They are slightly larger than Sub-C cells at 26 x 65mm, I have been using them for a number of years in various guises without any temperature control, but with balance charging, these chargers are easily obtainable from most model shops, but the fittings for the balance lead can vary, I find the best balance lead is the XT type, you will know the type if you start an investigation into this technology.

The main reason for the temperature sensors is the fast charger that these tools are normally sold with, as long as the charge is kept too 10% of capacity there is no need to have the temperature sensors to cut off the charge as the chance of a thermal run away is for all intents nonexistent.

Explosive cells where the LiPo type that had a soft outer casing, because of the internal chemistry they where self sustaining once they where on fire, even underwater, the A123 cells having a steel case do not explode, well in the years of using these amongst a lot of other people around the world I have never known one to explode or even catch fire.

Mike

 

[Eric The Viking]

Eric

They are slightly larger than Sub-C cells at 26 x 65mm, I have been using them for a number of years in various guises without any temperature control, but with balance charging, these chargers are easily obtainable from most model shops, but the fittings for the balance lead can vary, I find the best balance lead is the XT type, you will know the type if you start an investigation into this technology.

The main reason for the temperature sensors is the fast charger that these tools are normally sold with, as long as the charge is kept too 10% of capacity there is no need to have the temperature sensors to cut off the charge as the chance of a thermal run away is for all intents nonexistent.

Explosive cells where the LiPo type that had a soft outer casing, because of the internal chemistry they where self sustaining once they where on fire, even underwater, the A123 cells having a steel case do not explode, well in the years of using these amongst a lot of other people around the world I have never known one to explode or even catch fire.

Mike

Thanks.

I'm used to older chemistry where typically you detected that the equilibrium was pushed as far over as possible (fully charged) by a sharp temp rise. After that you're then only splitting the water in the electrolyte, to no good purpose, and obviously that damages a sealed cell. I remember a magazine article* about someone rejuvenating "dead" NiCds years ago by drilling a small hole very carefully and injecting carefully measured amounts of distilled water!

Reading more of the Wikipedia entry, Lithium ion cells don't look too hard to manage (constant current, then detecting current drop-off at end of charge and switching to constant voltage for trickle charging). Taking that with what you say above, it might be feasible.
The drill in question has 15 c-cells in it, so there's plenty of room in the battery case (for only five cells!).

*I think it was in Wireless World, probably. The article was about how NiCds could have a very long life if managed properly, but died quickly through misuse.