Board & Batten doors

[woody67]

Evenin' all - I've been asked to make some rustic b&b doors for an outside privvy, and coal house. When I say rustic, I mean rustic. The customer in question wants to use tanalised fence rails as boards - 4' wide, so my questions are....

a) Can I get away with biscuit jointing them and add the zed braces ? or

b) Will I have to in some way tongue and groove the boards and then add the usual zed braces ?

Hope this makes sense

Thanks

Mark

 

[jasonB]

I always thought a board & batten just had vertical boards with wide horizontal battens NO braces. A ledged & braced door will have both.

You really need some form of T&G or lap joint as the boards need to expand & contract naturally and biscuits would have to be used without glue and you will get gaps between the boards when they dry out.

Jason

 

[woody67]

Thanks Jason - Thought as much! I've got a router table so will half laps be an easier option? Sorry for the confusion...I meant a ledge and brace door as you rightly pointed out.

Mark

 

[joiner_sim]

The lap joint would have to be surface nailed.... so no secret nailing.... although it would be fitting in with the rustic design!

Just a thought you could groove the boards and run a strip in between the boards.... if that makes sense?

 

[jasonB]

You would fix the boards by screwing through the braces so secret nailing does not come into it. The boarded side is the show side so should not have fixings, Though if they want rustic then use rose nails and clench the protruding end.

Grooving and a loose strip can work but stop the groove 50mm or so short of the end as they can slip down.

T&G would be better with a lap the top board can lift if its not fixed near the edge.

Do allow for substantial shrinkage as most fencing these days is soaking wet you could get at least 6mm shrinkage on a 150mm gravel board.
J

 

[Jacob]

Evenin' all - I've been asked to make some rustic b&b doors for an outside privvy, and coal house. When I say rustic, I mean rustic. The customer in question wants to use tanalised fence rails as boards - 4' wide, so my questions are....

a) Can I get away with biscuit jointing them and add the zed braces ? or

b) Will I have to in some way tongue and groove the boards and then add the usual zed braces ?

Hope this makes sense

Thanks

Mark

Outside bog I'd just use square edged boards with no joints, and nail the ledges and braces. Dead traditional. Work of minutes once you have cut everything to size. Might be a good idea to space them a touch as they will expand in the outside air. Unless they are already acclimatised. Or make them up outside.

PS Oval nails over sized so you punch the head in and clench the pointy end over (also punched in along the grain).

 

[MickCheese]

Very 'Coronation Street'.

http://ww2.durham.gov.uk/dre/pgDre.aspx?&SEARCH=By+Keyword&TERM=Sanitation&ID=DRE6704&PIC=Y

Jacob

Now I don't know you, I don't know what you look like or even how old you are but:

Whenever I see one of your posts, (they keep me very amused and I love your down to earth realism) I can just see you, in my minds eye, standing at the bar of the Rover Return, wearing a cloth cap and hob nail boots, everything is in black and white.

Isn't it strange how we get a subconscious image of people from postings, letters or on the telephone, quite often we are very surprised that the mind image we have conjured up is so totally wrong.

Mick

 

[Jacob]

If you want a trad looking outside-bog/coal-house door the simplest thing is make a completely traditional outside-bog/coal-house door. Also happens to be the easiest way to do it. I'm just pointing out the glaringly obvious.
There is a deep rooted assumption that to make something looking a bit trad you have to fake it somehow (using "biscuits", screws, mdf etc :lol: ).
No need to fake it.

PS and if it is a typical outside-bog/coal-house situation i.e. damp, un-heated, then an un-joined construction will survive far better than a joined one.

 

[bosshogg]

For those who remember the outside loo Brrrr!

 

[Benchwayze]

If you want to make them a door that will last, use a good thickness, say 3/4 " (That's 3/4 of 25mm :mrgreen: )

No reason why you can't joint with biscuits, but it might be easier to run a 45 degree router bit along the boards first. Keeping the setting until you have done all edges of course.
Ledges and braces wouldn't be necessary, but it will look the part. It all depends on how dry the timber is of course.

You could build a 'Jacob' type door.. (And that's okay too, because as usual, Jacob is right. It's just nice to make a door in a different way sometimes!) !) If you do make a trad door, and are going to paint or stain, paint the tongues and grooves before you put the door together. Avoids white timber showing due to shrinkage, over the centuries! (Hang on... With today's timber, months!).

Regards
John

 

[jasonB]

Ledges and braces wouldn't be necessary, but it will look the part. It all depends on how dry the timber is of course.

How are you going to keep the door together and stop warping without Ledges (battens) ? Agree that with wid eledges you don't need diagonal braces but you must have something to fix the boards to.

J

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Jason,

They want the authentic look. They'll have it if the timber moves about too much.

I have table tops here that were just rub-jointed about 45 years ago. They aren't warped, or gappy. They don't have ledges underneath. Just buttons.

Maybe today though you will need ledges, but if the door is going to warp they won't stop it. They might keep the door together which is their main purpose. But if you are gluing the planks, and you take reasonable care about it, methinks you could get lucky.

But as I said, ledges would look the part.

John

 

[woody67]

Thanks all.....It's all soooooo much clearer now! :shock: What's the consensus then?

a) Biscuits
b) T&G via my wonderful routing methods :wink: OR
c) Nowt

Thanks

Mark

 

[bucheron]

Sound advice from Jacob, I'd go for three ledges and two braces with the lowest part of the braces on the hinged side.

Very simple and easy to make.