Biscuits, Dowels, Floating Tenons, M&T?

[cusimar9]

I keep going round the houses on this so I thought perhaps the best bet would be to ask what the consensus is on here.

Before the inevitable comes up, I know a Domino would be the best option, but as a hobbyist if I had £500 to spare I'd be spending it on upgrading my table saw first, so it's a way off yet.

I recently bought a wolf craft dowel jig which I used to join the top rail to the sides on a basic butt joint, see below:

The joints were absolutely awful, not perfectly aligned and the holes I drilled were not 90 degrees. Luckily I managed to save the piece and all is well, but I nearly compromised a very time intensive project with a poor £20 jig. I appreciate I may have 'used it wrong' but I've lost trust in it and I'd rather find an alternative for the next time.

I've jointed a number of table tops with only glue, it's been fairly straightforward but I can see how it could have been easier if I'd used a biscuit jointer to help align the pieces. So I could consider a budget biscuit jointer, but I've concerns about how strong the joints are, if used in the scenario above.

On that same project I also made a router mortice jig which was surprisingly simple and effective, so I could potentially use a router jig with floating tenons if I was to do the same thing again.

I've also read numerous threads on here talking about the joint genie and potentially that could also fit my requirements as a 'budget' occasional use joint aid.

I guess I've so many options I'm now confusing myself! Any advice would be welcome.

 

[yorkshirepudding]

I recently broke up some shelves I'd made using only biscuit joints. I really had my work cut out. The wood broke before the joints.
Another option might be pocket holes?

 

[rafezetter]

+1 biscuits. Once you've made sure the alignment is correct (cut in a test of scrap for depth) they are simple and straightforward, plus they have some leeway regarding mistakes. Only the other day I did a couple at a slight angle (unintentional I might add), but once I'd pulled the joints together it was fine because the slots are a bit wider than the biscuits.

The only extra advice I would say is make sure you are always referencing the bisuit jointers faceplate on the same sides of all the peices (don't ask me how I know that can be very very bad) and leave the stock a mm or so thicker than final dimensions to allow for odd misalignment that can then be trued all round.

 

[Steve Maskery]

That is a very hard lesson to learn. We have all been there, and you have our sympathies.

Of all your options dowels are the worst, because they have the least face-grain to face-grain glued surface. Biscuits are good, floating tenons are good. M&T is good. A Domino is just a very effective way of doing a floating tenon. Excellent but not essential. And I speak as one who has a Domino and rates it highly.

The joint you are trying to do is not easy if you are a beginner, but it is achievable without lots of fancy kit. I'd probably do a "proper" M&T now, but then I have a good M&T setup. But you can do the job very well indeed (not necessarily quickly, but I guess you are more interested in quality than speed) with a budget router and a couple of jigs. There are loads on tinternet and I have published my own favourites.

Tenons, floating or otherwise, are an excellent weapon in one's arsenal.

S

 

[RogerP]

It seems to me that all these mortise and tenon substitutes take more time and are open to more errors than cutting a traditional M&T joint in the first place I know some M&Ts are very awkward, such as on angled pieces, but most of the time they are quite straightforward.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I agree with Roger. Traditional mortise and tenon. All you need is a saw, chisel and mallet. Router plane or rebating block plane helps but not essential, either are worth the investment for a load of other tasks.
Paddy

edit. see Paul Sellers vids for instruction on you tube if unsure about how to do them

 

[dzj]

On that same project I also made a router mortice jig which was surprisingly simple and effective, so I could potentially use a router jig with floating tenons if I was to do the same thing again.

There are many videos on YT of horizontal morticers people made with a router. Floating tenons are easily made with
such a machine.
Or if it's a just for a joint or two, use hand tools. It's really not that hard once you get the hang of it.

 

[cusimar9]

Thanks for the advice all. I think to be honest I didn't even consider a M&T joint on the project above as the material was only 20mm thick, but I suppose even a 7mm tenon would be quite strong.

I guess biscuits would also have worked since there are 5 other mortices holding the pieces together, so strength wouldn't have been such an issue.

 

[mseries]

Normal M&T joints IMHO are the best option. If you are doing this for the pleasure, do the traditional thing. Use a router with some simple jigs if you want, the jigs don't have to be elaborate at all, or do it unplugged with a brace & bit, chisels and a saw. (For deep mortices a 1/4" router will not be adequate anyway, you'll not get a 7mm cutter long enough. You could of course use a 1/2" tenon, giving about 4mm each side of the mortice, then use a long worktop cutter in a 1/2" router)

 

[custard]

Rick, you mentioned that if you had the budget you'd upgrade your saw.

Bear in mind that any dedicated jointing system, be it dowels, or biscuits, or dominos, references off a sawn or planed surface. So if you're saw isn't absolutely dead on accurate any jointing system will likely disappoint.

It's another reason to stick to traditional M&T's!

 

[cusimar9]

Thanks custard, yes my saw is a cheapo jobbie

My main gripe with it is it doesn't cut boards straight enough to joint two pieces of wood together without some small gaps, I'm still trying to work that one out. Either the fence has too much play in it or I need a zero clearance insert.

I've also bought a jointing plane to try and overcome that particular handicap

 

[SlowSteve]

mathias to the rescue...

http://woodgears.ca/homemade_tablesaw/alignment2.html

 

[Steve Maskery]

If you are using that machine for ripping you should have a short fence fitted.

 

[cusimar9]

I find the longer fence helpful in aligning long stock, particularly on the infeed.

I guess you're highlighting that the out feed side could be at risk of kickback?

Even with a riving knife?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yes When ripping, the fence should end after the front teeth and before TDC of the blade.

 

[cusimar9]

OK thanks Steve I'll look into that

 

[bench_monkey]

I don't think it's been suggested but as a quick way of doing biscuits without the layout for a jointer, try (on a scrap first!) using a 4mm groove cutter in your router freehand or with the fence on for depth to form the hole to push your biscuits into. I've had to do it in desperation a few times over the years and even though dropping a router in isn't the best way to work, if you're confident with the router it'll suffice until you can buy the correct kit. 4mm groove cutter is about £20 from trend.


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