Bats

[Mrs C]

Anyone know anything about Bats? Does anyone have a copy of a mitigation strategy for Pips?

We need to replace the roof on the house and I want to know what we would need to do if we had them. They fly around, but I am not sure if they are using our roof.

If you are providing alternative accommodation for them does it have to be in exactly the same place as where they were seen to be?

Thanks

 

[Blackswanwood]

The Bat Conservation Trust are who you need to speak with. They have a helpline on their website and are genuinely helpful.

Cheers

 

[Rorschach]

Make sure any communication is anonymous, you could put yourself in a very difficult situation otherwise.

 

[sunnybob]

Long time ago I knew a man who had a nice but small country house that was infested with bats. He wanted to enlarge the house but was stopped because of them.
He put a ghetto blaster in the loft and tried to get them to appreciate very loud heavy metal "music" for days on end, but before they learnt to enjoy deaf metal there was a very unfortunate accidental house fire which destroyed most of the house. :roll:
Luckily, his insurance was up to date and the insurance money helped to build his new house on the ashes of the old one.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Long time ago I knew a man who had a nice but small country house that was infested with bats. He wanted to enlarge the house but was stopped because of them.
He put a ghetto blaster in the loft and tried to get them to appreciate very loud heavy metal "music" for days on end, but before they learnt to enjoy deaf metal there was a very unfortunate accidental house fire which destroyed most of the house. :roll:
Luckily, his insurance was up to date and the insurance money helped to build his new house on the ashes of the old one.

I'm sure the bat people will give best advice, but even if you have got them in your roof or walls it's not necessarily a showstopper, you just need to follow certain rules - it's a criminal offence to knowingly disturb bats. A telltale sign is their droppings - just like mouse pooh but dry and visibly full of insect crunchy bits. A mitigation strategy would usually be to install batboxes or ideally batbricks in a southfacing place.

 

[sunnybob]

Thats the only anecdote I have on bats. They havent ever wanted to live in the modern houses I've had. :roll: 8) 8)

 

[AJB Temple]

Don't necessarily assume they live in your roof. We have bats (they have finally started making evening appearances this year) and they live in the trees and tall hedges (we have an excessive abundance), one of our outbuildings and in the dozen or so bat boxes I made (copying a conservation design) and put up. The house is a barn originating from the 16th Century and has no bats. However, they may have been discouraged by whoever did the bodged conversion in the late 1980s.

We have several ponds in our garden and a narrow river adjacent, and these provide an excellent evening food source for bats. You may have similar. If so you can plot when they emerge and quite possibly track where they emerge from. You can buy phone apps quite cheaply which enable identification (according to Steve Backley on TV).

 

[Alder]

An acquaintance wanted to knock down an old house. Bats were discovered in the loft and his first task was to build an outbuilding to house the bats. £10,000 before anything else happened.
In another case a Chapel wanted to treat some wood in the Vestry. On that occasion a bat officer intimidated that buildings in a wooded valley were merely used seasonally.
Russell

 

[Artiglio]

Before you get carried away and inform all and sundry of your thoughts and concerns have a goodread up about bats and the industry thats grown around them.
You’ll start with a survey for “roost potential” which if its thought there is will lead to an emergence survey, depending on who you use and the type of building that could be 5k plus.
Then if you have a roost you’ll be looking at mitigation and “good practice”, this can even mean paying for a “bat professional” watching your roofer remove every slate /tile on your old roof.
Whilst just about no situation is impossible to get round there is a whole industry of university educated environmentalists who are able to charge what they like to comply with regulation.
Its a potentially very expensive minefield , which in the early stage is based proving a negative if you’re lucky.
Bats are really pretty common and can roost in just about any building but as often happens common sense has definitely not been seen as a sensible option.

 

[Doug71]

A customer of mine had to have a bat survey done last year before they could make a start on their barn conversion. In their words"We had to pay a few hundred quid for some fat bloke to sit in a deck chair smoking for 2 days". There were no bats found :roll:

 

[Woody2Shoes]

...
Bats are really pretty common.....

They're significantly less common over the last few decades here in West Sussex. For several reasons:

1) We're killing all the insects, and we're creating much more light pollution to confuse the survivors.
2) We're 'converting' or upgrading all the sheds/barns/houses that they used to roost in with modern methods and materials with far fewer suitable gaps in.
3) We're 'tidying up' woodlands to remove mature or dead/dying trees which provide roosts.

Being bat-friendly needn't be expensive - especially when you consider the alternative.

 

[Lazurus]

The bottom line with bats is you cannot disturb them, however most british species have summer and winter roosts. The usual method is after they have had their young so there are no dependant littlies in the building you can fit exit only tubes to there holes so they can exit but not return and enter. then when the roost is empty you can do what is required. The bats society will come out and advise if there are bats roosting FOC, generally a local expert will come and poke about and advise accordingly. My advice from experience is do not go ahead if there is a slight chance of bats as a ton of bricks will fall. Follow the procedures, and this time of year the bats will be looking to move towards their winter roosting site so shouldnt take long to establist and rectify if they are on site.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

This may be the most expensive bat solution "per bat": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 320610.stm

...The two so-called "bat bridges" at Dobwalls, costing £300,000, were built so the animals could find roosts after hedges they had followed were removed.

The Highways Agency said they were used by between 11 and 17 animals each day...

And this is a bat bridge:

 

[Artiglio]

You should also be aware that emergence surveys (if deemed necessary after your roost potential survey) can only be done May-September, and if you need more than 1 should be between 2 and 4 weeks apart.
There’s a group on facebook “ukbatworkers” if you can find a way to join , its quite interesting.

 

[MikeG.]

Before you get carried away and inform all and sundry of your thoughts and concerns have a goodread up about bats and the industry thats grown around them.
You’ll start with a survey for “roost potential” which if its thought there is will lead to an emergence survey, depending on who you use and the type of building that could be 5k plus.
Then if you have a roost you’ll be looking at mitigation and “good practice”, this can even mean paying for a “bat professional” watching your roofer remove every slate /tile on your old roof.
Whilst just about no situation is impossible to get round there is a whole industry of university educated environmentalists who are able to charge what they like to comply with regulation.
Its a potentially very expensive minefield , which in the early stage is based proving a negative if you’re lucky.
Bats are really pretty common and can roost in just about any building but as often happens common sense has definitely not been seen as a sensible option.

This is twaddle. Bats are in serious trouble, and that's due to human activity....and to attitudes like this. I've been through bat surveys any number of times, and the most I've ever seen charged to my clients is £1100, including mitigation advice. A lot of the "advice" in this embarrassing thread is illegal, and if followed could lead to to a court appearance. Behave you lot, and do the right thing.

 

[Doug71]

There used to be loads of bats around here but you don't see as many now.

I try and do my bit for them by having this on top of my roof, I love to imagine a few bats "hang out" in it but sadly the only thing I have ever seen in it is the bell.

 

[Rorschach]

What you do depends on your ethics really.

 

[Artiglio]

MikeG

With the greatest of respect, my comments are from direct personal experience. Many of the problems bats face is a result of the legislation and the industry thats built up around it. It actively discourages homeowners from doing the right thing. My local Bat group no longer carry out surveys or recommend suitable persons as a result of the ecology firms creating a fuss over what they did.
The fees these firms charge are negligible for a developer wanting to demolish or convert a building and build a small estate but are anything but for an individual wanting to do a conversion/ extension etc.
Finding a small independent with a Bat Licence is becoming more than a little problematic, its almost a cartel.
The biggest issue is the roost potential surveys and any follow on emergence surveys, in the example given above for a barn conversion , you’d pretty much want any bats present to be found during the roost potential survey and hope that then you’re not down for the guideline of 3 emergence surveys that could require upto 4 observers each time (depending on barn size and visibility splays).
I’m all for looking after wildlife and encouraging it, but many firms are more than happy to push the boundaries wherever they can.
Bats are lovely things my mum has them in her barn in wales they’ve been there over 30 years, have resolutely refused to use the bat boxes put up for them and although their droppings are easy to find quite where exactly they roost we’re not sure. They exist quite happily alongside the resident barn owls, who over the years have reared over 30 young that have been ringed by the barn owl trust and a good number more that fledged before the ringing man made his annual visit.
The law on bats is clear, but if you genuinely think you have them, its far better to sit in your garden for a few weeks trying to see if they are emerging from your property before calling in the experts, its proving a negative that costs the big money. Locating the point they emerge from and pointing it out to the ecologist will save a fortune. Not hard to do a few net searches will tell you what and when to keep an eye out. Then mitigation in respect of the bats and proposed works can be dealt with.

 

[MikeG.]

MikeG

With the greatest of respect, my comments are from direct personal experience.........

......and with the greatest of respect, so are mine. I usually get to commission half a dozen bat surveys a year, roughly.

 

[Rorschach]

MikeG there is an ideal world and the real world.

When my mother had birds do several hundred £'s worth of damage to her roof and we were on the verge of that turning into thousands or even tens of thousands of £'s worth, do you think the welfare of a few birds even entered into our minds? Quite simply we could not afford to do the ethical or legal option, the birds could have cost her the house.