Advice needed upvc windows and doors

[pgrbff]

A neighbour has bought 19 external doors and windows from Leroy Merlin, like B&Q, to install himself and asked me to help.
The doors are split and one side can be opened like a window, the top tilted in, I'm afraid I don't know what you call this type of mechanism.
The windows are just about OK, they open and close, but the doors are terrible, the frame flexes so much that the mechanisms fowl as you open the door. The gaps between the doors can be 5mm in the middle and 10mm top and bottom, or vice versa. we tried them standing on a level surface and perpendicular to the floor.
I've made and installed quite a lot of windows for myself, all wood, I know nothing about upvc.
Shouldn't the frame be rigid enough to support the opening parts without twisting? Or am I being unrealistic?
Leroy Merlin say they will be OK once installed and that it's normal for the mechanisms not to work if not installed.

 

[Adam W.]

It's tilt and turn.

I would imagine that they will work once supported by the structure of the opening that they are going in to.

 

[pgrbff]

I agree if they were a quality product, but I believe these may have been bought on price. There are some breaks, they have clearly been dragged across the floor, and pieces of moulding have been broken off and screwed back on with self-tappers. The tops of the doors aren't level and they were covered in bird ££££.

 

[Garden Shed Projects]

How could you post on here about such witchcraft as upvc.

That being said upvc is pretty flexible and as Adam has confirmed they need to be securely fixed back to the structure to support the door or window sash. I would advise you install plugs and screws or knock on window fixings at maximum 400mm centres packed out as you would any door frame and then fill the void with expanding foam.

 

[pgrbff]

Our buildings here are fairly nice, but rough stone and the stuff between them is soil, not lime mortar or cement.
It is easier to put fixings on the outside of the frame and use mortar to anchor them filling in around afterwards, I use hydraulic lime mortar with a pointing gun but I'd use cement mortar on this job as it is far cheaper.
I really don't like uPVC and in the long run, it doesn't work out any cheaper than reasonable timber windows looked after, especially in our climate.

 

[Richard_C]

We had replacement windows, doors and patio doors over the last 2 years, mid 80s house of no great interest so most new windows were upvc.

The fitters worked quickly and efficiently, really pleased with how it ended up, but a couple of things I noticed as they did it. Pretty obvious but might help.

First was they took great care and took time to get the frames square and vertical in the openings, spirit levels, bucket full of different plastic packing pieces. Once secured plenty of screws into brickwork, rechecked before it all got sealed up. Fitter said if you don't get that stage exactly right it takes much longer to adjust everything later.

Next up, the glass. Again care taken and a range of slim packers around the edge before trim put on, and much like bonded windscreens in cars the glass and frame work together to keep it all square on the opening bits.

We had one long narrow tilt and turn, after a few weeks it got difficult to close so they came round to adjust. Spent ages, got it working, open, close, 'gone off' again. After an hour the fitter took the trim off with a view to taking the opening bit out and realised that one packer had slipped down the side of the glass in the hot weather, refitted that and it all worked perfectly. So once again, glass and frame work together.

I guess you won't be able to judge if your frames are any good until the first one is in and glazed. Maybe then the perceived "floppiness" will not be an issue.

 

[lexfurther]

I have been waiting for two months for new windows and listening to various explanations as to why the windows can't fit. Right now my wife reads Windows USA reviews on their site and we will probably call these guys to finish the job other company started.

 

[ian33a]

uPVC installations are loose and floppy - the only structurally strong and square bit is the glass.

If the void is square, the frame work can be installed in the void, packed with frame packers as required and then locked into place with heavy duty frame bolts.

Then the glass can be installed in the sashes, packed using toe and heel glazing packers ensuring that the width of the packers matches the width of the glazing units and that the packers are correctly placed so as to transfer weight into the bases of the hinges. If the frame of the unit is slightly off square, the toe and heel packing can adjust the frames of the sash marginally so that the locking mechanisms work correctly while properly supporting the glass - but a square frame in the void is always much better.

Once the sashes open and close and lock correctly in the frames the glazing beads can be added to the sashes, checking the open close and locking once again.

Then the gaps around the frame edges can be filled with an appropriate material and made to look good.

Much of the time the extrusions which make up the frame are much of a muchness (for a given energy rating) - it's the quality of the installation, the locking furniture, the hinges and the quality of the glass which make the difference. For most consumers the fact that it opens and closes and they can see the garden through it is what matters most once they are properly installed. Then the gentle ticking starts as the glazing units start to gradually deteriorate!