I'm thinking of mounting the guard for my table saw in the ceiling, to get rid of the boom arm that otherwise takes up space and enlarged the footprint of the saw so I can't tuck it in as close to the wall as I'd like. I have some ideas in my head on how to go about it and I've tried to look online but found precious few others that have done similar things. Perhaps someone here has done the same, if so I'd like to see how you set it up.
Ceiling mounted crown guard.
- Thread starter DennisCA
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Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
I've never tried it but I've seen the videos and it seems to be a very bad idea.
1 A riving-knife mounted crown guard keeps the blade covered as it moves with the blade when it is adjusted up/down/tilted
2 Ditto - prevents the workpiece getting thrown up and out as it is very firmly mounted. The top-down alternatives can get pushed out of line etc.
Why bother with a complicated mounting system when there is such a simple and effective alternative?
1 A riving-knife mounted crown guard keeps the blade covered as it moves with the blade when it is adjusted up/down/tilted
2 Ditto - prevents the workpiece getting thrown up and out as it is very firmly mounted. The top-down alternatives can get pushed out of line etc.
Why bother with a complicated mounting system when there is such a simple and effective alternative?
What about those extendable props used for propping things like plasterboard. If you tightened up the joints to stop them moving so freely you'd have it easily adjustable for height. Just screw it to the ceiling and top of the Crown guard and jobs a goodun !
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blackrodd
Established Member
I Googled ceiling mounted saw guard and there's quite a lot, here's a link,--
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ceili ... wA0g&dpr=1
Regards Rodders
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ceili ... wA0g&dpr=1
Regards Rodders
Guess its down to your exact phrasing, I never found that many, 2-3 results maybe.
Some of the thick piped overarm systems look like they could be more compact than mine, too, and I could hook up a DC there, that'd definitely be interesting too.
Some of the thick piped overarm systems look like they could be more compact than mine, too, and I could hook up a DC there, that'd definitely be interesting too.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Why?DennisCA":2wx2d2xf said:
Crown guard on riving knife is safest, most reliable and simplest by far. I can't think of a reason for abandoning it in favour of some sort of overhead or boom fixing.
These solutions in my opinion are only used because they're the cheapest way to make the saw pass regulations, companies probably know the users remove them most of the time but they can then just say the user removed the guards when an accident happens so they got their backs covered.
Proper industrial saws (like mine) have overhead guards and riving knives that do not protrude above the blade and do not need to be removed or fiddled with ever, a non-through or trenching cut is easily done. The safety feature that stays on the saw is the safety feature that is better, the safety feature that ends up on the shelf after being too much in the way, is no safety feature at all.
Proper industrial saws (like mine) have overhead guards and riving knives that do not protrude above the blade and do not need to be removed or fiddled with ever, a non-through or trenching cut is easily done. The safety feature that stays on the saw is the safety feature that is better, the safety feature that ends up on the shelf after being too much in the way, is no safety feature at all.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
But:DennisCA":2fp9cad7 said:
1 aren't you talking of taking yours off because it gets in the way?
2 Your safety feature will be fixed to the ceiling and will not stay with the saw if you move it.
Steve Maskery
Established Member
It seems to me that the main challenge in making an overhead mount is making it rigid enough. You won't want it waggling about, I'm sure, so it would have to be pretty beefy How high is your ceiling? 8'? 9'? Say your saw is 3' high, that means the arm needs to be or 6' long. That could flex a lot, I reckon.
Mine is on a boom, but it is mounted from the far RH corner of the saw. It's also supported by a shoe on my fence, so (provided I check that everything is properly tightened!) it is rigid enough.
Mine is on a boom, but it is mounted from the far RH corner of the saw. It's also supported by a shoe on my fence, so (provided I check that everything is properly tightened!) it is rigid enough.
Wizard9999
Established Member
I can't see where Dennis said this (in this thread anyway), he said the current boom mounted guard was too space hungry.Jacob":2lq45gb8 said:
So does that mean that if the saw is in a fixed position a guard independent of the riving knife and which can therefore stay in place for non-through cuts is ultimately a theoretically better solution? I say theoretically because clearly there are also practical considerations such as the strength, etc. of the particular guard installation.Jacob":2lq45gb8 said:
I'm pretty knew to woodworking and the saw I bought second hand did not have the riving knife or guard fitted when I picked it up (no idea if that was how last owner used saw or if it was just removed for my collection). I used it a couple of times and did not feel that safe, so I put the riving knife and guard on. I found the guard a complete PITA as I couldn't see what I was doing (happy to concede it may have been my positioning of guard that was the issue) so it came off almost immediately. On the other hand I do not like working without the riving knife and yesterday in particular it was on and off multiple times.
I'm keen to understand what the safest approach is, but it is hard to disagree with Dennis that a safety feature is only doing any good when it remains fitted.
Terry.
woodbrains
Established Member
Hello,
Mine is a ceiling mounted boom, though I do have a low ceiling. It used to be mounted to the RHS rear extension table, but when I moved out of my workshop and into the shed, space made it less convenient, so I hung the thing from a beam. There are a couple of advantages of keeping the boom, though it makes it harder to mount rigidly. Firstly, it gives some adjustment, so if the saw is moved a little the boom can be extended/retracted/swivelled a little to bring things back to line. I decided my saw would not be moved, for portability, though it does get shifted during operation clean up. Again, something I don't do, but the boom allows the guard to be retracted if a tenon in jig is used. Mine can also be swivelled completely around, which gets it out of the way to use a router table in the RH extension of the TS. When the boom was fixed to the table extension, this could not be done. I haven't got round to fixing the router in the extension yet, I modified (cut the legs shorter) my existing router table so it has become an out feed table. I'm still debating whether this is better, since dust extraction lives under the TS extension. When space is tight, there are many ways to arrange things, but it remains to be seen what works best until it has been lied with for a while.
Mike.
Mine is a ceiling mounted boom, though I do have a low ceiling. It used to be mounted to the RHS rear extension table, but when I moved out of my workshop and into the shed, space made it less convenient, so I hung the thing from a beam. There are a couple of advantages of keeping the boom, though it makes it harder to mount rigidly. Firstly, it gives some adjustment, so if the saw is moved a little the boom can be extended/retracted/swivelled a little to bring things back to line. I decided my saw would not be moved, for portability, though it does get shifted during operation clean up. Again, something I don't do, but the boom allows the guard to be retracted if a tenon in jig is used. Mine can also be swivelled completely around, which gets it out of the way to use a router table in the RH extension of the TS. When the boom was fixed to the table extension, this could not be done. I haven't got round to fixing the router in the extension yet, I modified (cut the legs shorter) my existing router table so it has become an out feed table. I'm still debating whether this is better, since dust extraction lives under the TS extension. When space is tight, there are many ways to arrange things, but it remains to be seen what works best until it has been lied with for a while.
Mike.
woodbrains
Established Member
Wizard9999":2ql9qtrb said:
Hello,
NEVER work without a riving knife, it will only be a matter of time when something goes wrong.
If you can't do the operation with the riving knife in position, then find an alternative method of doing it.
Mike.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
"too space hungry" is another way of saying "getting in the way".Wizard9999":10d19qkp said:
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
If in doubt keep it simple (riving knife and crown guard) and as you say - keep it fitted. It really is a solid and reliable safety measure. Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's bad.Wizard9999":oaosfsz4 said:
It's a bit worrying that newcomers are being encouraged to doubt simple safety measures.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
DennisCA":2zacpyz7 said:
It does 5 things really well:
1 works as riving knife
2 prevents accidental contact with the blade from above. It's fairly sturdy and can take a big knock, though sides of the guard may lose a bit of plastic
3 prevents having stuff thrown up and off. Again it's fairly sturdy in this respect and if set close enough a thrown piece won't have gathered much momentum. It won't stop stuff being thrown out horizontally of course.
4 Can be connected to dust extraction
5 stays in situ with all movements of the blade
There are lots of fussier examples with lifting clear covers etc but the fussier they are the less safe they are . Keep it simple.
Wizard9999
Established Member
No in the context of this discussion it clearly isn't, the distinction (which I don't think was that hard for anyone to understand) is where it gets in the way, i.e. at the blade or more generally in taking space up in the workshop. But as Dennis is happy to close down the discussion I won't bother debating semantics further, it would not add any value.Jacob":2hbeanwf said:
Terry.
