Repair costs

[Baldhead]

Thanks to all those who replied to my post 'Roof Repairs', just to clarify things, we are taking a company to court, they are counter suing us for roof repairs, quite frankly it's a joke, but not a laughing matter.

I have just recieved their paperwork they will present in court, they are claiming £1600 +vat, (total £1920) for the work listed below.

Cleaning all guttering front and back
Refixed guttering and down pipes
Repaired guttering and facia board
Replaced damaged flashing on chimney stack
Repointed chimney stack and recemented pots
Fixed and replaced missing downpipe at the front of property

Before I ask for you you think would be a fair price, let me explain, I am not disputing they cleaned out the guttering, or that they replaced a section of downpipe at the front, the other work is either not our responsibility or it has simply not been done, also we did not ask for any of these repairs to be carried out.

The building is two, two bedroom terraced flats, we own the downstairs, the upstairs is responsible for all work done "above the level of the brickwork supporting the joists upon which the floor of the said first floor flat rests" except,

1. Chimney pots (pots not chimney stack)
2. Spouts, gutters, downcomers and other things for conveying rainwater from the building

But just to keep things easy, let's say I am responsible for half of all the costs, is this a fair price?

May I add, this is simply for myself, I will not be using any comments placed on this site in the court, I am a tad upset by this and other things the defendant has claimed, which quite frankly are.......oh I forgot I can't call him a liar, I have to practice being nice for the courtroom.

Baldhead

Oh one last thing, one receipt has

J. BLOGG'S MAINTANANCE
FOR ALL YOUR MAINTENANCE NEEDS

That's it, no address, no landline or mobile telephone number, I am being silly thinking this is a little suspect? (I've changed the name for obvious reasons)

 

[hanser]

Hi Baldhead

Good luck with your claim. Whatever the outcome I'm sure the resolution will take a great weight off your mind.

A few thoughts for what they are worth

Do you have any legal protection insurance that would cover your legal costs?
Any thoughts about going down the Citizens Advice Bureau route for legal guidance
Are there any references to J Bloggs maint. on the web - perhaps negative reviews etc??
Does anyone know if the property was scaffolded? Can't see how a 'reputable' trader could have done the repairs without.
Part of the claim is for VAT, so presumably they have supplied a proper VAT invoice with VAT reg number. You can check the validity of the number http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/ It may be invalid and the VAT an element of the false claim
Where does the upstairs leaseholder stand in this? With the builder or with you?
Re your day in court make sure you are clear on your grounds - presumably no estimate, no customer approval of the works, no variation to the works, no evidence of work done. Present the facts calmly, clearly and with right on your side you should be successful.


I appreciate that you may not wish to respond to any of the points raised.

 

[Baldhead]

Thanks hanser, you have a PM

Baldhead

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Very well put Hanser. Baldy....I've defended a fairly aggressive legal action as you may recall from earlier posts. I was in and out of court for over a year and the one over-arching advice I can give is to reiterate the comment Hanser made about being clear on your grounds and then simply answering questions pertaining to those details. The moment it gets personal or where you proffer "opinions" then it will go pear shaped because it will seem like a witch hunt.

The law in cases like this is reasonably black and white, binary, rational and your case sounds to me like you are being charged for work you didn't agree to? If no documented quote was provided or better yet you did get a quote which doesn't tally with the invoice then they don't have a leg to stand on. All business transactions require terms to be agreed before works commence. The quote process etc is the legal means of providing a tracking process for audit purposes. Now you can transact business on a verbal contract but frankly its unwise to do so for just this reason.

Hopefully you have a paper trail that supports and underpins your grounds. In other words you have a clear case, with supporting evidence. Keep it professional and based on the evidence, you'll be fine by the sounds of it.

 

[Baldhead]

Bob, it's difficult to explain at the moment, but these repair costs are the lying scumbags counterclaim against us, our claim has nothing to do with builders or repairs to property but something entirely different, he's just trying to frighten us off, sorry but I went to a hard school, sometimes you had to hit first, and hit hard, I will reveal all after the court case, because there are a lot of people on this forum who have been extremely helpful and they probably don't realise it.
I am focused, I will not start 'name calling' I will just present the facts.

Baldhead

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Good man. Out of curiosity, when is the hearing?

 

[Baldhead]

Good man. Out of curiosity, when is the hearing?

25th, all documents have to be in by 11th, so I have still got two days, I presented him with some more papers today, took a witness just incase, and the witness said, 'god you were cool, I really thought I would have to pull you off him'.

Baldhead

 

[rafezetter]

Baldhead - not sure if you've thought of this but, if he had indeed "refixed/ repaired" guttering and downpipes, there would be evidence of fresh screws. There is a chance the person who fitted it before used stainless steel ones in which case they would still look different to fresh ones, but that chance is extremely slim; only a very few fitters go to that trouble.

A quick spot check in a few places like the clips and other fittings should reveal if anything was done - things like new rubbers in the joints too (if they've gunned in mastic it's not acceptable, and not a *true* repair, it's a bodge it and scarper at best - it NEVER lasts, fresh rubbers is the ONLY way to reseal joints after they have come apart ) you might go to the trouble of checking all of it and take photographs. Any evidence you can present that refutes what they claim to have done will throw their whole counterclaim under suspicion.

"repairing fascia board", even if plastic cover type, will leave telltales - the small plastic polynails, though small will still show evidence of age by a small amount of dirt and gunge on their upper surface, it never completely washes off in the rain, new stuff will look stark by comparison; and there isn't a fitter alive who would clean the whole existing fascia front (thereby removing evidence of age) with a good solvent cleaner before doing any gutter repairs. It simply never happens.

if it's wood - a new scarfed(?) in section would show up.

Why are they making this counterclaim at all? My argument would be that if they did the majority of these works without consent or approval, it was their choice to do so without written consent from you (a bit like a friend who had a lodger that wouldn't pay her rent, but claimed doing jobs around the house should cover it even though she wasn't asked to do them and got mad when my friend refused to lower the rent bill), asking you to pay for it after is a smokescreen, why are they not making a counterclaim or whatever regarding the other issue?

 

[Baldhead]

Rafezetter the to guttering is exactly how you state, the joints have been filled with a black mastic type substance (this I have already photographed) and a 3' length of black downcomer added to the bottom, thing is though, the guttering and all the other downcomers are grey, his receipt actually says the guttering should be painted black! (I assume this is to blend in with his botched repair)

Fascia board has not been repaired other than a piece of plastic has been nailed onto the end of the existing wooden fascia as a return (it's a terraced block but the rear of the properties are not straight)

Your spot on about this being a smokescreen, there are other things regarding his claim which are incorrect, I have evidence which actually shows that one party are lying, sorry I mean one party is trying to mislead the court, they can't make a counterclaim regarding the other issues, they have already admitted they were wrong to do what they did.

Got to go now, I have a lot of work to do today so I can produce more documents for the defendant and the court.

Thanks for your input.

Baldhead

 

[Baldhead]

Hanser you have a PM

Baldhead

 

[rafezetter]

If it's not too late - painting guttering and downpipes... why on earth would someone do that? - or to be more specific - why paint grey guttering parts black when:

* black is MORE readily available - black is sold almost everywhere, grey is not.
* some companies give warranties on their guttering products for colourfastness
* painting plastic never sticks for more than a few years - even if they used a proprietary acrylic based paint, it doesn't move properly with the plastic in the sun and flakes off looking far worse - any builder with experience of painting plastic outside parts - be it guttering, soil pipes etc; would know this and advise against it if the homeowner intends to stay in the property.

Trust me - removing ALL the old stuff and replacing it is FAR quicker than painting it. - plus guaranteed new seals etc.

Edit - just re-read - your existing guttering is all grey, and he must have used a black pipe? Well grey isn't as available as black, but not impossible - I guess he maybe he wasn't bothered enough to find a supplier.

 

[Baldhead]

Rafezetter, he could have bought a length of grey downcomer locally, he fitted a 3' length of black because that's what he had lying around, it's not even new! It's just one of many things he has done 'on the cheap', thanks for your input.

Baldhead