pgrbff
Established Member
Is there a reason for using dovetails at the end of the bench with a tail or wagon vise?
Tail Vise why dovetails?
- Thread starter pgrbff
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Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
No.
Aesthetics, your bench shows off your skills to your customers. The forces on the vice are trying to push the vice in the direction of the DTs so they will effectively resist this movement, but so would a coachscrew. So there are reasons but they are largely form over function.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Some of them are so fancy they'd snap off if you over tightened!
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thetyreman
Established Member
I've seen houndstooth dovetails used for it on some roubo style benches, frank strazza does it and he makes some really fine workbenches.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Built in 2012 ...
Underbench cabinet added in 2020/1 ..
A combination of pride and enjoyment.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Traditional joinery was created when nails and screws were very expensive and the best glue they had was animal of fish based, labour was also cheap! The dovetail was as already stated one of the strongest corner joints and therefore was used for the tail vise in lieu of any other stronger form of fastening. Today, we have a choice of jointing methods and I wouldn’t feel compelled to make the tail Vise with a dovetail. Derek’s workbench is testament to his huge skill and expertise. It’s beautiful, I would be ‘scared’ to use it for fear of damaging it. My own bench gets a lot of abuse, for me it’s a consumable tool, but, I’m not in Derek’s league
Orraloon
Established Member
Not just end vices. When I made this printing press I could not think of a more practical way to do it. Actually when you think about it it's just a vice but not attached to a bench.
Regards
John
On a wagon vise, dovetails (usually combined with bolts), deal with clamping forces
when one is clamping stock between two benchdogs.
On a traditional Continental/ Scandinavian bench, these forces are opposite.
When clamping between benchdogs, the corner joints are in compression,
so there is no need for dovetails. That is why on store-bought ones you most often
find box/ finger joints, as they are easier to make.
However, when you use the tail vise to disassemble a joint (on a chair, for instance),
then DTs do come into effect.
when one is clamping stock between two benchdogs.
On a traditional Continental/ Scandinavian bench, these forces are opposite.
When clamping between benchdogs, the corner joints are in compression,
so there is no need for dovetails. That is why on store-bought ones you most often
find box/ finger joints, as they are easier to make.
However, when you use the tail vise to disassemble a joint (on a chair, for instance),
then DTs do come into effect.
ps.harris80
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Trouble is you have now built a bench that is too nice to work on.Built in 2012 ...
Underbench cabinet added in 2020/1 ..
A combination of pride and enjoyment.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
I assure you that I hold no tool sacred. All are just that - tools - and I both make and use tools and furniture all the time. The bench has been planed down, as part of maintenance, so it never gets to look too graunchy (is there such a word?
).My view is that (as an amateur, albeit serious one), building is fun, but building with tools you enjoy using is Heaven.
With a thread asking about dovetails, here is the Moxon vise I use. Eye candy, perhaps, but it gets a lot of use …
The rear of the vise has a flip up spacer ..
… which is used to lift the workpiece (to avoid cutting into the chop when transferring marks) but also to secure boards …
More here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/TheLastMoxonVise2.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Ttrees
Iroko loco!
I treat my benchtop as a reference, clean & smooth and no grit like a surface plate of sorts,
and have no bother keeping it so, easy because I don't damage it in the first place.
(no minute scratches for grit to settle in)
Doesn't stop me from welding or whatever.
I use a few plywood rectangles to protect it, no problem.
Those ply sheets are the most difficult thing to keep clean, and cannot be put onto the bench until cleaned from any grit.
Tom
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Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Wouldn't it be easier to have a separate "reference surface" rather than trying to use your actual workbench? These two functions look extremely incompatible. Like having a chopping block which you have to keep in perfect unused condition.
Why not use your ply to make a separate "reference surface" so that you can use your bench in the normal way?
Have you got it completely the wrong way around?
"Surface plate" is a precision engineering term and isn't normally a feature of woodwork at all. In fact sounds like a big mistake!
I can't say I've ever felt the need myself and have never had a problem flattening things in the normal way.
My bench is covered in scratches, dings, nail/screw holes, paint and oil stains. A wipe-over with turps and an occasional light pass with a sander keeps the surface flat, clean, with nothing sticking up. I recently added an off-cut of formica to the well, which makes it easier to clean off glue etc and it looks nice and tidy too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plate
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Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Serious amounts of tool pimping going on there @Derek , I like it.
I've just splashed on a Benchcrafted wagon vice, but I'm not sure if it will fit on my bench....I may have to just build another one.....perhaps I should have looked first, never mind.
Edit: Stop worrying, I can just shove the legs along a bit....no problem. I think I'm going to use a monster sliding dovetail to fit mine with, but that battle plan may be subject to change when I meet the enemy.
I've just splashed on a Benchcrafted wagon vice, but I'm not sure if it will fit on my bench....I may have to just build another one.....perhaps I should have looked first, never mind.
Edit: Stop worrying, I can just shove the legs along a bit....no problem. I think I'm going to use a monster sliding dovetail to fit mine with, but that battle plan may be subject to change when I meet the enemy.
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Douglas Carlson
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Wrong.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
☝︎What a silly idea Wilson old chap, far too much palava.
Just bolt a piece of 4x4 on the end to make it longer, works a tweet.
johnnyb
Established Member
I must have an unrequited itch to make a nice bench as I put I bid on the unfinished bench for sale on this very forum. I can't help but think after I made it I would be terrified to use it!(in the way I use my bench now at least)
I have a cover-over bench top for grotty work made from MDF. I renew it from time to time, and the serious cabinet bench top remains pristine for when it is needed.
That is a superb bench !^^^^^
That is a superb bench !^^^^^
