Tablesaw V Bandsaw - ding ding, round 300!

[ByronBlack]

I know I know, it's an age old thread and it's been done to death. I've spent the last week reading most of the old threads on the forum, and my head is in a spin.

I've been saving my pennies, and i'm in a situation where I can go either for a tablesaw (Axminster Cast Iron Cabinet) or a bandsaw (14" Jet). Here is the questions that are causing me a bit of hassle:

1. The extractor will be located outside at the back of the workshop. The tablesaw if I get it will be located a few feet in from the front. Thats about 6m away. Is that too far for adequate extraction?

The reason I ask this question is because currently as most of you know I use a rail system with an MFT - and only need a small trend vac as extraction, but won't be able to use that with a tablesaw, so i need to think about larger extraction. I'll probably be getting an Axminster 220 model.

2. I plan to mostly make cabinets, tables, and furniture and can think of an equal amount of tasks for both machines - but in reality, which one would get used the most?

3. I have two concerns with my current rail setup with the MFT. One is the limited 47mm depth capacity - I have to cut from both sides of the stock if thicker than 2", not a problem for one off's but could get tedious. This is for both crosscut and ripcut. A Tablesaw would solve these problems, could I adequately in the long-term do these tasks on the bandsaw, or would it but just another half-measure? I did do some long-ripping to a degree on my previous bandsaw, but it was just in pine, and not hard-wood.

4. Rip length - is limited to about 600mm on the MFT unless I fix the rail the other way which won't suit my layout, I have to resort to laying the stock on the floor and cutting with the rail - which again is fine for sheet work, but not great for repeatability.

So far I seem to be needing the services of a good tablesaw, BUT
(i'm sorry this post is so long, please bear with me)

5. Joints. I like the idea of using the bandsaw for cutting tenon cheeks and possibley dovetails - if I make a lot of them (smaller numbers i'm happy to do by hand). Is it safe and accurate to do tenons on a tablesaw as opposed to the relative safety of a bandsaw?

6. Re-sawing, obviously the bandsaw is the king here, but i'm limited to the jet 14" which is going to only be able to resaw about 6" - is this possible on the tablesaw by doing it from both sides, or is that asking for trouble?

Basically, my conundrum is that I really only want one machine to preserve my delicately planned machine/hand tool balance but can see a great deal of use for either, so I need to see which can do most of my tasks to a satisfactory level.

Thats it really - any thoughts will be greatly received and entered into a hat for a prize draw competition for a holiday in Thurrock

If I do go for a Tablesaw, I will be selling the MFT as it'll be more of a replacement than an addition.

TIA

P.S Please excuse my terrible typing and grammar - had a liquid lunch today, hick...

 

[DomValente]

Judging by what you want to do BB I think the tablesaw.
In my opinion you can cut tenons on the TS probably more accurately than a bandsaw, possibly not as safely but not what I would call highly dangerous.

Dom

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Byron,

From what you say above then like Dom I too would say go for a table saw. I cut tenons on mine with no problems. The only real downside is re sawing.

Dust extraction should not be a problem either.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Woody Alan]

Byron

Trying to sort out all your points and refer to each one is tough, I don't have the attention span I am kind of reading between the lines to make my best guess as to what might suit you. If you have both Tsaw and bandsaw you will lose space. Bsaw is king of resaw for what you want and without getting too deep I think Tsaw is too difficult/dare I say dangerous to deep rip narrow boards.
So If you bought a bigger bandsaw which wouldn't have that greater impact on floor space compared to a small one, but no Tsaw you will reap the benefits of more space acheiving all your requirements if you keep your saw system. The Tsaw is not that great for cutting panels esp from big sheets. I have a Tsaw Large Bsaw and saw/rail and if soemthing had to go I think it would be the Tsaw. Don't get me wrong it's nice to have but just not neccessary. El rusto should clean up any Bsaw work, blades will be cheaper comparted to Tsaw (I think) unless you want to compromise yourself and have a combo blade.
Also the tenons on a tablesaw (not to cause offence as I have done/do them this way) is a waste of a tablesaw, there are many otherways to do them router table, router jig,by hand

Cheers Alan, got to go missus says dinners ready

 

[Sawdust]

Byron,

For what it's worth, I have both.

I have a great big bandsaw which I got first and used a lot.

Then I got a table saw and to be honest, I now hardly use the bandsaw at all.

I guess it depends what you want to make and how many curves you want to cut but if I had to start again and could only have one, I would definitely get the table saw. I'm not sure which one you are looking at but if you accomodate a sliding carriage then it's even better.

Cheers
Mike

 

[paulm]

I would probably go for the tablesaw as well on the basis that it will do most of what you need and better than the bandsaw.

I have both, but unless resawing heavy timbers or making turning blanks the TS gets most use.

The TS is particularly quick and efficient for cutting several identically sized panels or components. For example, although it's hardly fine cabinetmaking, I knocked up a couple of sets of mdf drawers for under the workbench recently. It was a doddle to size all the panels and drawer components on the tablesaw and just run them off in sequence and quick succession and made the assembly so much easier. That may not be the kind of thing you plan to do particularly, but is where I see the benefits. Basically boils down to better accuracy and repeatability I think is what I am trying to say.

The bandsaw is useful for tenon cheeks and resawing but it's easy enough to knock up a tenoning jig for a tablesaw or buy a proper one from Rutlands.

I couldn't decide myself a few years back so got both, but it is pretty inevitable that which ever you go for you will at some stage wish you had the other for some things !

Cheers, Paul.

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks everyone so far in the thoughts given, seems like me most are leaning towards the tablesaw route. I guess it comes down to two things for me:

1. How often will I need to re-saw, and can I get this done elsewhere if need be? I can't think off hand how many times i'll be re-sawing, i've not had the need for over a year so maybe it's something I can live without.

2. How many curved items will I need the bandsaw for? Well, ive recently purchased a decent bow-saw, and I have a cheapish jigsaw so I guess it's not something that is not very much needed.

One of the things I like about a bandsaw is the low volume, relative safe use and is nice to use just as a quick 'go to' saw to make a couple of quick cuts, but then thats only because i've never had a proper ready to go tablesaw.

IF I do go the TS route, could anyone with the axminster 10" cast iron tablesaw tell me the widest external dimensions including the extending table that comes with it and the sliding carriage? Thanks

 

[NeilO]

Byron,
I`m with the rest of the gang....the tablesaw!

I know the versatility of the bandsaw makes it a definate workshop addition, resawing, curved work and the like....

but can you seriously tell me you could cut a panel down for a project with little finishing to do on a bandsaw , like you could on a tablesaw??

and if you humming and arring over which one, why have you such a large bandsaw in mind? surely if you not sure about which one you really want/need you cant have thought about the tasks you will be putting to the bandsaw, maybe a smaller BS would do??

maybe trying the axminster equivalent size?

 

[Lord Nibbo]

I've got both BB, now if the bailiffs wanted some dosh I'd let them take the band saw :lol: seriously I can safely rip up to 26 inch wide on the TS, more if I use a panel jig, now how big would a band saw need to be to do that :lol:

 

[jasonB]

I have both and the Tablesaw is the one that gets the most use.

With a sliding carrage you can repeat cut to width and length very easily and quickly (ideal for those draw boxes)

Resawing or ripping sawn boards is where the bandsaw has the advantage and curved work of course.

As far as cutting tennons goes, its the shoulder cut that will be seen and the TS will give a neat cut here so does not really matter how you hack the cheeks.

Jason

 

[wizer]

TS first, BS later

 

[WellsWood]

Hi BB
Like others here I have both, but I'd be hard pressed to say which I could do without more easily. Like Mike I had the BS first, and I must admit that despite thinking it was the best thing since sliced bread when it was all I had, it didn't get much use for quite a while after I got the TS. In the last couple of years however it gets used more and more, to the extent that I hardly ever put the rip blade in the TS any more.

Sadly most of the points in your OP just make me think you could probably do with both. Seems to me you should use one of your spare Mondays to come over and have a play with my 2 (hmm... maybe I should rephrase that), it might help you decide - or it might just make matters worse :twisted:

I think you may find that the over-riding concern is space, once you've added in/outfeed areas to a TS it can really start to make a huge dent in workshop space even as generous as yours, sliding tables are in a whole other league when it comes to finding somewhere to put the beast.

Whatever route you go I'm glad it's you that has to make the choice and not me....... :wink:

Cheers
Mark

 

[Sawdust]

I've got both BB, now if the bailiffs wanted some dosh I'd let them take the band saw :lol: seriously I can safely rip up to 26 inch wide on the TS, more if I use a panel jig, now how big would a band saw need to be to do that :lol:

I can manage just under 24" on mine, but I still say the table saw is more useful!

Cheers
Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

Well fella's, it seems the overiding opinion is towards the tablesaw. To be honest, I think i've known it for a while, but because my first real proper saw was a Jet bandsaw I always think back to that, but then i've never had the luxury of a decent tablesaw. The rail system has served me well in most things, but with the limited time I have to get into the workshop the setup time and lack of repeatability becomes more of an issue.

Mark, thanks for the offer, I think i'll most probably take you up on that in a couple of weeks when were both free, cheers mate! (The drill press is getting a lot of use now, thanks for the chuck key!).

One last question on the subject. I do fully intend to fit a decent extraction system (Axminster ADE2200) but in the meantime, is it practical to get a step-up converter pipe (I don't know it's proper name) for my little Trend AF Darlek vac/extractor and use that? Or is it to weedy for a 4" pipe on a tablesaw?

I suppose i'll have to decide which tablesaw I get now! I'm leaning towards the axminster one mainly because of Tony's glowing reviews, and axminsters service, I don't want a repeat of the lyndhurst debacle

Also, Mark; you make the point about infeed/outfeed. Luckily i've already considered that, and since you came over, i've had a massive clean up/reorganisation and will be placing the TS a few feet in from the door and to one side, this will allow me infinite infeed from the open doors, and about 16 feet outfeed across the workshop, over the workbench and onto the worktops at the back, so that should be plenty, it's just the width I need to consider, as I have the p/t opppsite where a TS will go, ideally it needs be under 2m.

Thanks again chaps, you've been a great help, I always stew for weeks over any large purchase like this.

 

[paulm]

Can't recall the pricing on the Axi TS but well worth trying to check out a SIP 10" with the cast iron table, the fence is great, it's quiet,powerful and accurate, great value for money in my mind for £500.

So much so that while I occasionally hanker after an Excalibur or similar I really can't justify the extra spend even though they are better machines the benefits seem slight and although the extra cost isn't particularly an issue for me it just doesn't make any kind of sense to spend significantly more for my needs at any rate.

The Axi may be better for all I know, I haven't seen one, but I can't think of anything the SIP is deficient in except the mitre gauge, and thats easily remedied with an EB3 or a Norm type sled......

Cheers, Paul.

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for the suggestion Paul, like most people in the same situation, it seems a toss-up between the SIP and Axi.

Talking of the EB3 - does that effectively take the place of the sliding table that comes with the Axminster saw? I know tony bought one to replace his due to size concerns, i'll probably be the same. Also, what is the widest piece that you can cross-cut safely with the EB3?

 

[paulm]

I haven'y used the Axi and sliding table BB so you probably need input from Tony or someone, but as far as I am aware then yes the EB3, which is basically a very large, very accurate mitre gauge, is an effective alternative.

There isn't really an effective limit on the length it will crosscut, the support fence is probably from memory around 400 to 500mm long with an extension piece that slides out and pretty much doubles that if needed. It's well made, accurate and rigid so I think you could crosscut pretty much as long a piece as you can support on the table or with a roller stand or similar.

As always, no substitute for getting hands on with an Axi and the rest if you can to try them out........

Cheers, Paul.

 

[Woody Alan]

does that effectively take the place of the sliding table that comes with the Axminster saw?

IMHO no, it's kind of the point I was trying to make about what the saw is going to do for you. You will not be able to cut panels of any size with an EB3 which means you'll have to cut to the right of the blade so you will have to have long rails therefore more space taken, or you keep the sliding table on the left and shorten your rails. If you don't want to cut panels (I thought you did to lose your other system :?: ) then fine.

Alan

 

[woodbloke]

BB - my 2 euros, fwiw. I have both and probably use my little bs more than the ts.....at he moment :wink: I tend to use the bs to make small cuts where I'd normally use a tenon saw, however as others have said, for repeat cutting, ripping boards, panel cutting etc the ts is needed. I don't use the ts for tenons, just the bs and then router table to trim to exact thickness. I think the ts first and then the bs, but you will eventually need both, just depends really on the type of work you can see yourself doing - Rob

 

[ByronBlack]

Woody Alan - so let me get this right, are you saying that I could do away with the sliding table, at the extensions to the right of the saw, and cut panels using an EB3 or similar mitre guage and using the fence as a guide? This would still give me 30" of x-cut which I think should be quite adequate for most tasks.

I'll still be keeping my Festool saw and loose rails so can resort to that for wider panels if need be.

However, would it be a better idea to say only fit 1 extension on the right of the saw, and have the sliding table on the left - to be that seems a good compromise, but not fully understanding the table saw maybe i'm just talking about my rear? So many choices!

What does norm do for cutting panels?

Rob - this maybe a personal question, but how 'big' is your bandsaw?