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Your cheapest honing setup? **buying new only**

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Jacob

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Osvaldd":2wyusba2 said:
I would really like to learn how to sharpen without the guide, but whenever I do that I always tend to raise the angle with every sharpening before it becomes too steep
Sorry to state the obvious but try lowering the angle.
Put your chisel or plane iron on the stone at as near 30º as you can guess, then push it forwards but slightly lower it as you go. This results in a slightly rounded bevel (just like everybody used to do it) but with the edge not exceeding 30º.
It is extremely simple and very easy to do.
 

YoelD

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Osvaldd":3jgu4s9g said:
I would really like to learn how to sharpen without the guide, but whenever I do that I always tend to raise the angle with every sharpening before it becomes too steep
Exactly how are you going about sharpening? Hand sharpening and keeping a pretty consistent secondary bevel isn't quite as difficult as it seems.
It might be down to the technique you use.
 

D_W

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Osvaldd":37a5h9cz said:
I would really like to learn how to sharpen without the guide, but whenever I do that I always tend to raise the angle with every sharpening before it becomes too steep
Just regrind often until you get a grasp on not stepping up the angle.
 

Ttrees

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Having a bench grinder for starters, it will make any chance for errors drastically reduce.
No excuses for not having one!.. they're dirt cheap, have an induction motor that will last forever.

Depending on how much camber you use, it may play a part in this, but for me what worked starting with my lightly cambered irons,
was honing with the blade sideways, facing the small bevel, honing to and away from me.
I could register at each end (corner) of the iron, instead of focusing on registering on the tippy hollow ground bevel.

The same principle as chopping mortises plum with a small square and a chisel,
In that you can see the bevel laying flat on the stone.


You cant really change the angle if your honing sideways, with not much camber.
By that, I mean creating a larger camber without wanting to....(nothing to do with your honing angle)

This gave me a new way of approaching sharpening, because I'm using a different method for reference now and it's a lot easier.
Imagine, like you were expecting someone to shake out your credit card with a vice grips either side of your hand,
Referencing on each end gives a different grasp to focus on and will aid muscle memory.


Two things about this method though.... if you have an oilstone, you will hollow it out, so it might be a good candidate for the diamond plates.
And it takes a larger amount of strokes to hone an edge.

I don't skew or hone sideways now, just normally like everyone else, but have retained the important part, the knowledge of where to focus and hold the iron and can do any pattern of honing with any camber without changing the bevel angle.
even honing on a high spot is no problem.
Looking at a lot of folks now, I can see that same stance.

Tom
 

Osvaldd

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Just need more practice and patience I guess. and resist the temptation to lift the chisel a degree or two to get quicker results...

@Ttrees I personally try to avoid powered tools after a nasty accident with a belt sander..
 

Ttrees

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Osvaldd":12kghls4 said:
Just need more practice and patience I guess. and resist the temptation to lift the chisel a degree or two to get quicker results...
Less patience in my view, and more of practicing the techniques of someone who gets it done efficiently.
As said, I can now see what I was missing by watching skilled folks from a different perspective.
Not saying these folks have identical techniques atall, but I see the way their honing style has a similar grasp by the way they're directing the force, not on to the bevel, but on the length of the iron, and using their shoulders.
(in my view, they might tell you otherwise)

David W, Bill Carter, and Rob Cosman, Yes, on waterstones, and honing in different circular patterns! What I see he has a similar grasping reference method, regardless of convincing you to buy thicker blades for more hollow grind reference area, I still see that side to side reference now.
More important than any hollow ground bevel reference, in my view.

Tom
 

ED65

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Osvaldd, you just need more practice. Virtually everyone freehand sharpening has been guilty of doing exactly what you're doing at one point.

A faster honing surface helps, which is one reason I'm such a fan of diamond plates, but diamonds aren't at all necessary to prevent the problem.

Try to actively notice how you're standing, how you're holding your wrists and arms and do careful repeat motions. Go slow if you need to. While some experienced guys hone really quickly if you can't while maintaining the proper angle then don't worry about it, it's not a race.
 

Jacob

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ED65":20dndwq6 said:
Osvaldd, you just need more practice. Virtually everyone freehand sharpening has been guilty of doing exactly what you're doing at one point.
Yes "rounding over" is rightly deprecated.
The cure is to aim instead at "rounding under", whereby you dip the handle or blade slightly as you go.
A bit like the advice to plane a straight edge on a board by aiming at a hollow scoop, rather than just planing flat and ending up with it rounded.
The modern sharpening "experts" are best ignored - the endless paraphernalia of gadgets, exotic stones, having to flatten everything, make it more difficult and much more expensive; they are just trying to make you buy stuff!
 

sploo

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ED65":1ragn7to said:
Osvaldd, you just need more practice. Virtually everyone freehand sharpening has been guilty of doing exactly what you're doing at one point.

A faster honing surface helps, which is one reason I'm such a fan of diamond plates, but diamonds aren't at all necessary to prevent the problem.

Try to actively notice how you're standing, how you're holding your wrists and arms and do careful repeat motions. Go slow if you need to. While some experienced guys hone really quickly if you can't while maintaining the proper angle then don't worry about it, it's not a race.
Indeed.

I could never get a chisel sharp on my old Norton India oil stone, but having started to get into handplanes I got some advice on freehand sharpening (and watched a few videos - e.g. Paul Sellers). Having started with the "scary sharp" system (i.e. abrasive paper on glass) I moved to a cheap set of diamond plates.

Some time ago I thought I'd just try the old oil stone again, and (surprise surprise) that also works too. Basically; watch some videos and practice (and be prepared to regrind the odd cheap chisel or plane blade when you fail the first few times). Once you've got the hang of it, freehand sharpening takes minutes (sometimes just seconds) and pretty much any abrasive surface will work - just choose the one you like to use.
 

Jacob

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Jacob":25ibk5uw said:
............
The modern sharpening "experts" are best ignored - the endless paraphernalia of gadgets, exotic stones, having to flatten everything, make it more difficult and much more expensive; they are just trying to make you buy stuff!
I forgot to say - cutting and sharpening is a hobby with a lot of people, especially knives. Fine, as long as they don't go around stabbing people, or letting it hold up their vegetable slicing etc. But woodworkers don't need to be too obsessive if all they want to do is woodwork. Keep it simple - and cheap!
PS oil stones do need cleaning and refreshening or they clog up and stop working. I use a 3M Diapad because I've got one, but other things will do - e.g. stainless steel pan scrubber plus white spirit. A magnet is good for lifting off the swarf.
 

SammyQ

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Nom! Nom! Nom! Lovely popcorn...Let me know when to join in with the chorus! :D
Cue Animal Farm sheep bleating "Rounded bevels good, straight bevels baaaaad!" =D>

Sam
 

sammy.se

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I've taken the advice on this thread re diamond plates, cheap from Alibaba.

Really happy with the result!! They cost me between £1.50 - £3 each, I bought a handful, different grits and a couple of different designs. Can't ask for much more really. They were delivered within 3 weeks.

I haven't stuck them to anything yet. I have some glass plate which I previously used for the wet n dry paper method. I may epoxy them to that, but for now, I just use them on a table top.

I'll post pics at some point. I did sharpen some kitchen knives was well - hair shaving sharpness achieved !

Really happy - a super sharpening solution for £10 all in!

Thanks ED65!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

Jacob

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Osvaldd":3iativu6 said:
Just need more practice and patience I guess. and resist the temptation to lift the chisel a degree or two to get quicker results...

@Ttrees I personally try to avoid powered tools after a nasty accident with a belt sander..
Yes that's it in a sentence. You have to wait for the burr to show (or to be felt) and if this seems slow maybe do more of a grind than a hone, on a coarser medium, but still without lifting the angle.
 

Osvaldd

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@Jacob

This was in June, I have now mastered sharpening and do most of it with one oil stone, feels good.
 

ED65

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Glad to hear they're working well for you Sammy.

Now seems an ideal time for an update to the thread showing the current state of the plate:



Three years on and as mentioned in a few recent threads there's barely any change (except to the PVC sleeve, which is about to give up the ghost :p ) and from what I can tell it cuts just as fast as it always did.
 

timothyedoran

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Thanks for such a useful long term review. I hope this doesn't count as resurection of a zombie thread... Could anyone suggest an Amazon or eBay link to a UK seller for a set of stones please. I feel very guilty about postage for individual items from China. Yes I know that's where they are made.
 

D_W

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Jacob":2c3qyway said:
Jacob":2c3qyway said:
............

PS oil stones do need cleaning and refreshening or they clog up and stop working. I use a 3M Diapad because I've got one, but other things will do - e.g. stainless steel pan scrubber plus white spirit. A magnet is good for lifting off the swarf.
Synthetics clog or load, but don't necessarily need anything if used in an oilbath - they'll slow down and probably not clog.

The wear of this type on the natural stones is a virtue, though. The fine oilstones aren't particularly fine unless they're allowed to settle in like this. They don't clog if used with a non-drying oil, but the air space on something like a black arkansas stone of fine quality is generally a percent or less. If it approaches 2-3%, there will be visible pores on the stone.
 

D_W

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timothyedoran":1qd0wq6s said:
Thanks for such a useful long term review. I hope this doesn't count as resurection of a zombie thread... Could anyone suggest an Amazon or eBay link to a UK seller for a set of stones please. I feel very guilty about postage for individual items from China. Yes I know that's where they are made.
The DMD stones are likely the same or similar spec to ultex, etc. If you find someone selling a double sided milled steel diamond plate in the UK for 25 pounds or less, it'll be the same thing. I've not had any that lack durability. Some may lack flatness, but not to an extent that they're unusable for honing - just very minor undulations. Very good quality for the price.
 

Jacob

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D_W":2dnr0fb3 said:
Jacob":2dnr0fb3 said:
Jacob":2dnr0fb3 said:
............

PS oil stones do need cleaning and refreshening or they clog up and stop working. I use a 3M Diapad because I've got one, but other things will do - e.g. stainless steel pan scrubber plus white spirit. A magnet is good for lifting off the swarf.
Synthetics clog or load, but don't necessarily need anything if used in an oilbath - they'll slow down and probably not clog........
It seems to be bits of wire edge itself which cause a slight prob - they get embedded.
I never got around to an oil bath as I did a lot of site work - hence reliance on double sided stone and a squeezy can of oil, which is really all I use, in or out of the shop*. Got lots of other stones and stuff in a drawer though (including first I ever bought in about 1960 - a bit coarse but going strong!) I drag things out for an occasional go but they are mostly redundant. Might do a clear out and sell them. Black and White Arkansas stones anyone?
* PS and must be the answer to the OP's question: cheapest honing setup **buying new only**? Last for life, 2 or 3 quids worth of oil per annum.
 

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