Krome10
Established Member
That also need to have trickle vents to comply with building regs?!?
Would you buy a grade 2 listed cottage?
- Thread starter Jameshow
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That also need to have trickle vents to comply with building regs?!?
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
We didn't need trickle vents with our new chapel windows as they all had small opening lights - well fitted but without draught seals. Classed as a "leaky" building by one expert. Wasn't particularly draughty.
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Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Nice one!
The secret with a building like that, before doing anything else at all, is to do a very detailed survey and record of everything possible. Photograph every inch, measure and draw everything possible, such that even if a bomb dropped on it you could in theory reproduce something very like it. Plans, sections, elevations, and details.
Drawings also give clues as to previous changes and help to make good where info or material is missing.
Old buildings may have gone through many transformations.
Can be more archaeological than architectural.
If necessary individual pieces can be tagged to help identify them if they get moved about.
Poke about a bit to see what is beneath the plaster, under the tiles, everywhere you can.
I was called to look at something very similar where the new owners had very enthusiastically set about renovations and had done a lot of dismantling. They wanted me to quote for joinery but had really poor records beyond a few snaps. They could probably remember how everything was but they'd be losing it slowly as time went by. I said I'd call back when they had the thing put back together so there'd be something to measure. Never heard from them again - looked like a complete non starter.
I guess they would have got a builder in and just done a bodge as best they could.
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Mike G spent many years dispensing free, detailed advice on this forum, helping countless people with their workshop and other builds. Frequently, his comprehensive posts would have taken a good deal of his time and I'm sure he did this in part because he is proud of the work he does.
To suggest that his helpful comments are a cynical promotion of his profession is, in my view, unnecessary and unwelcome in a discussion aimed at answering someone's request for advice.
We bought a Grade 2 listed farmhouse 2 years ago and the conservation officer has been a nightmare. Where building control and the planners are generally well informed, and within the limits of their available freedoms, helpful and cooperative, espaecially once they had realised that we are trying to do a really good job of stabilising and preserving the property, the conservation officer has been slow, unhelpful and frankly stupid in lots of areas. There are some things that need to be done internally and these are subject to just the same controls as the outside regardless of some of the comments made above, I could share reams of correspondence on skirting boards alone! (we finally suggested that as there were multiple differnt types of skirting in the house it was hard to know which we should be trying to match with so would they tell us what they wanted. The response we got back was "its not for us to tell you the answer you have to make a formal submission that will pass or fail, if it fails you will have to resubmit" How can that be a sensible approach?) The real problem is that LBC have a formal set of rules that everyone can refer to an understand, even the planners have standard guidelines but listsed buildings in the form of conservation officers, appears to be totally subjective. We have friends in a different area where the conservation officer focuses on trying to reach a sensible compromise between keeping the house habitable and occupied and therefore preserved for the future versus trying to maintain the original fabric wherever possible. Unfortunately this seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Do I regret buying it....no, it is a beautiful property and location and when we finish the renovation it will be a lovely family home for, hopefully, many generations to come, but do I wish that there was more standardisation and transparency in the rules and more common sense in their application?... very much so.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Sounds like a timid conservation officer, possibly new on the job? At least they are giving you the option to use your own judgement, then it's up to you to convince them.
Often there is no right or wrong as the building may have had many changes, without there being a definitive "original"
Another problem is that successful conservation work can be invisible and gets unnoticed - the thing just looks right without much sign of stuff having been done and hence the "conservation" being unappreciated.
Whereas some "improvements" stand out like a sore thumb with every vestige of character scrubbed away into oblivion.
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I don't think I have. All I can find is a description detailing build date 1855 that it was a hospital red brick construction etc and mentioning some iron window frames. What it is but no why it's important other than the generic statement that it's listed
I renovated a grade 2 listed Tudor cottage some years ago, I befriended the local conversation officer who drove past on his way to work and on his way home, he would pop in on his way from work for a cup of tea and a general chit chat, never had any problem getting anything approved, but then I would never in a million years ask to put UPVC windows into a Grade 2, anyone who does is someone that should not be allowed to have control of a heritage building. The cottage I now live in is even older, but has escaped listing, the remedial works I have carried out are in keeping with the aesthetics and construction of the original concepts to the point of having flint blocks made to construct the conservatory with hand made squint bricks, you should have empathy for heritage buildings and will keep them safe if you are even considering living in one.
It is a privilege to live in or own a heritage building and custodians should act accordingly.
It is a privilege to live in or own a heritage building and custodians should act accordingly.
woodieallen
Established Member
I did find a description of the building, perhaps it's just me but I cant see what is special enough to require listing, there are lots of nicer looking buildings and the Victorians built a lot of hospitals, this is mid sized of it's type, nice enough but still why?
woodieallen
Established Member
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Sarcasm! The lowest form of wit!
Period joinery just happens to have been my speciality since about 1986 and I've spent most of my working life in period buildings and improving/living in them too.
Mostly sash windows and panel doors, all over the place.
Biggest job was in County Mayo, mainly 15 large sash windows and 8 panel doors in a C18 "plantation" house, all precise replicas.
Next biggest was recently vacated chapel conversion - complete conversion including 10x 14ft tall round top windows including flash glass decorative panes and cast pattern "Daisy Murano", all original glass or copies, where missing.
No massive expertise elsewhere. Am learning to play the trumpet (somebody gave me one) but with no great expectations. Cue "blowing my own...." comments!
PS and one round one.
Flash glass: 1 original acid etched. 3 copies sand blasted.
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I don't think these specialist are in abundance going by a farm up here that was done by guys from Devon.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
The criteria for listing include architectural interest, historic interest and close historical associations with significant people or events. So it may be there is nothing special about the architecture. Worth finding out as it may affect the attitude and interest of whoever is supervising conservation.
No. Looked at one (in good condition) before buying my current house, and have reviewed several listed buildings permission as a parish councilor (mostly maintenance, but overly complex). Bought a 400 year old property in France, no restrictions above conventional planning permission (application for renovation granted). The English system is too much of a potential minefield.
So: deduct the cost of restoring it - using Listed Building materials, methods and contractors. Also: your time and hassle dealing with the Conservation Goons. You end up with its true value: £22,000
"It is a privilege to live in or own a heritage building and custodians should act accordingly." ??
WHY? It's choice.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Generally the opposite. It adds value if done well.
Not necessarily. Our rectory was G2* but the staircase next door was G1.
My experience was very different. We weren't allowed to change any windows (10 foot high sashes). They all fitted where they touched so we had to stuff newspaper round the gaps in winter to stop the draughts. We weren't allowed to install secondary glazing. One of the kids broke a window with a football. I replaced it but when the conservation officer came round to look at an unrelated problem (with roof flashing) he spotted the glass and I had to change it for 'period' glass. Any idea how difficult it is to get hold of a four foot square piece of 400 year old glass? Got some eventually but cost an arm and a leg.
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