Would you buy a grade 2 listed cottage?

[Jameshow]

One question I have is can changes made before purchase be retrospectively rejected as someone has replaced the windows with typical wooden windows. Far left.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/152057090#/?channel=RES_BUY

 

[Jacob]

If you like the place then go for it.
Conservation and planning control can be helpful, not necessarily something to worry about.
I've worked my way through 3 derelict dumps of my own in conservation areas so far. No special probs everything worked out fine, as long as you are into conservation and like that sort of thing.
Now in a 60s house which is another dump and a much less attractive in many ways.

 

[Jacob]

One question I have is can changes made before purchase be retrospectively rejected as someone has replaced the windows with typical wooden windows. Far left.

I doubt it but just ask the estate agent or your BCO. They aren't out to get you.
They do look horrible though - I'd replace them a.s.a.p!
PS and that horrible front door!
End of terrace means a cold gable end wall - damp may be condensation and would ease off if the place lived in and warmed up etc.
Just perking it up, sorting the garden, decorating, living in it, can immediately add value. You are unlikely lose on it unless there's something very fundamental which has to be fixed.
I'd quite fancy it myself - might pop up and have a look!

 

[Pedronicus]

In principal, a Grade Two listing only covers the outside. So rooves, chimneys, gutters, doors, windows [including glass, cills & lintels] and brickwork. If you're not planning on changing any of these, you should be OK. Otherwise NOT.

Not to mention soil/waste pipes. If the originals are in lead then don't even think about replacing with uPVC!

 

[Spectric]

Now in a 60s house which is another dump and a much less attractive in many ways.

But at least it is a solid build with walls and decent roof unlike these modern sheds with stud walls and finks trusses so you have a good starting point to work from. The house I have is a nineties wonder build that has no build quality, shoddy workmanship would be better than what I have found so far and as for anything square or level then no point looking but I am sure that there were such things as spirit levels back then.

 

[AJB Temple]

I bought a Grade II listed manor house in West Sussex that had been used as offices. We converted it into 15 dwellings and had no real issues with conservation or planning because we made sure not to get into conflict.

In this case I would ask myself / find out why has it been listed and what are the special features that conservation are focussed on. Don't delude yourself about it being 30% below market value. No one sells at below market value - it is that price because it needs significant money spending on it.

Personally I believe you should never talk yourself into a purchase. Either it is a business proposition in which case be dispassionate, or you want to live there, and if it involves lots of work you must love both house and location. Otherwise walk.

 

[Pedronicus]

Not to mention soil/waste pipes. If the originals are in lead then don't even think about replacing with uPVC!

I'm surprised, looking at the agents listing pics, that they got away with the uPVC gutters/pipework particularly on the front elevation.

Perhaps there are different rools for 'oop north as opposed to the ones in Surrey/Sussex that I was involved with.

 

[Blister]

Only if I was very wealthy .

 

[HOJ]

To be honest that does look like a bit of money pit, and its very small, so very limited market, If you are cash buyer I would put in a really cheeky offer, and walk away.

Edit: just looked at the local sold prices, one in the vicinity sold for £85K December 23

"Properties in BD22 9DL had an overall average price of £85,000 over the last year.

Overall, sold prices in BD22 9DL over the last year were 75% down on the 2020 peak of £340,000."

 

[Terry - Somerset]

We moved fairly recently to a small town near the Cotswolds with a high street full of medieval onwards buildings - so the option of listed was a real one. We decided not!

A personal view - broadly charm (which listed often has in spades) vs pragmatism (often predictable and boring). IMHO to go down the listed route needs commitment and a material sacrifice:

• older buildings are typically much less fuel efficient and cost more to run
• design and layout are compromised through centuries of changing needs. That which met the needs of an 18th C butcher, baker, etc do not meet the needs Mr & Mrs 21st C.
• all repairs, alterations and maintenance will likely be higher cost and more involved than modern - impacted by listing requirements, approvals and specialist building skills.

Were I 20 years younger the challenge may have been worth it to live in somewhere delightful, idiosyncratic, unusual etc. The reality after some consideration was for the predictable, manageable, easily fixed, standard components - relatively hassle and cost limited.

 

[MikeG.]

I doubt it but just ask the estate agent or your BCO. .........

I don't post here any more, but I can't let this pass without comment. Jacob, you are completely wrong. And what on earth do you think a BCO has to do with Listed Buildings?

Anyone purchasing a Listed Building is potentially liable for any changes made illegally to that property since it was listed, even if they weren't the ones who made those changes. This is the law. The solicitor who conveys the property to you will also know this, and will warn you of it during the process of purchasing........or, at least, they should. (Absolutely insist on the seller's solicitor obtaining full answers to all the questions on consents which are in the standard contract questions pack.) However, this law is seldom enforced that harshly. Local authorities tend to give new owners a chance.

I am an architect specialising in ancient and listed buildings, so this is my every-day bread-and-butter.

As to the question in the OP............yes, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to buy a Listed Building if it was the right house for me. Most of the stuff people hear about Listed Buildings is nonsense, and much of that is caused by confusion with a somewhat complex system. My number one piece of advice is to employ an experienced local conservation architect early on if you are planning any alterations, extensions, or renovation. They (we) generally save clients many times the fees we charge, because we know the rules and expectations of the council, and will provide advice as to what you might or might not do with the property, in addition to then obtaining the required permissions. Listed Buildings can be quite restrictive, but can produce wonderful homes if you ( ie your architect) can navigate the bureaucratic processes involved.

Someone said something about finding out what the Listing covers. Don't bother. It covers everything within the curtilage of the building. Absolutely invariably.......every single time.

 

[Noel]

I don't post here any more, but I can't let this pass without comment. Jacob, you are completely wrong. And what on earth do you think a BCO has to do with Listed Buildings?

So it's mildly inaccurate advice? I'm sure any prospective buyer would be pointed in the right direction/offered assistance by the estate agent or the local planning/building control department.
Anyway, best of luck @Jameshow in finding a property.

 

[MikeG.]

So it's mildly inaccurate advice? I'm sure any prospective buyer would be pointed in the right direction/offered assistance by the estate agent or the local planning/building control department.
Anyway, best of luck @Jameshow in finding a property.

No, it was wholly inaccurate. "I doubt it" was in response to a question of liability for previous alterations, and, as I explained, was completely wrong. A BCO is interested in the Building Regulations, and would have no working knowledge of Listed Buildings whatever.........other than that building regs only partially apply in Listed Buildings.

 

[Jacob]

I don't post here any more, but I can't let this pass without comment.

Why bother?

Jacob, you are completely wrong. And what on earth do you think a BCO has to do with Listed Buildings?

I am not completely wrong at all.
I've found very often that BCO and conservationists are aware of each other on particular projects and the possibility of there being conflicts of interest, or interests in common - a question to one might get you referred to the other.
I've been working on buildings in conservation areas most of my life and have regularly dealt with both.
And an estate agent may well have an informed opinion too. And the solicitor etc etc.
When I said "I doubt it" I did in fact "doubt it" which was true, an opinion, not an assertion that it would not happen
I also suggested the doors and windows were horrible anyway - the first thing to go if it was mine.
And I've often had to explain to architects and conservationists what would actually constitute a proper restoration.

 

[Jacob]

.... A BCO is interested in the Building Regulations, and would have no working knowledge of Listed Buildings whatever.........

Not their job of course but very likely to have some knowledge and experience of other issues, if they've been in the job long enough.
PS in fact they can be a fount of knowledge with all sorts of helpful advice.

 

[Lons]

Why?

I am not completely wrong at all.
I've found very often that BCO and conservationists are aware of each other on particular projects and the possibility of there being conflicts of interest, or interests in common - a question to one might get you referred to the other.
I've been working on buildings in conservation areas most of my life and have regularly dealt with both.
I didn't make this up.
And an estate agent may well have an informed opinion too. And the solicitor etc etc.
When I said "I doubt it" I did in fact "doubt it" which was true, an opinion, not an assertion that it would not happen
I also suggested the doors and windows were horrible anyway - the first thing on the list if it was mine.

You're completely wrong and the fact you're stating work in conservation areas and BCOs rather than the specifics "grade 2 listed building shows your ignorance. A listed building doesn't need t be in a conservation area and often isn't but is always strictly policed when alterations are planned. Mike has spelled it out comprehensively so OP please ignore Jacob as well as Noel's rather flippant comment about mildly wrong. It's just wrong, full stop.

 

[Jacob]

You're completely wrong and the fact you're stating work in conservation areas and BCOs rather than the specifics "grade 2 listed building sows your ignorance. A listed building doesn't need t be in a conservation area and often isn't but is always strictly policed when alterations are planned. Mike has spelled it out comprehensively so OP please ignore Jacob as well as Noel's rather flippant comment about mildly wrong. It's just wrong, full stop.

Local planning authority looks after conservation areas and listed buildings. Same people.
I didn't realise this was controversial!

 

[BillK]

Just moved out of a Grade 2 listed house. We found the level of hassle was a roll of the dice, dependent on the quirks of the individual/s dealing with an issue. It was a great house full of character but no way are we ever going listed again.

 

[Lons]

Local planning authority looks after conservation areas and listed buildings.
I didn't realise this was controversial!

It seems there's a lot you don't realise

 

[RobinBHM]

I've seen a lovely 2 bed grade two listed cottage.

In a great location wrap around garden. On market fir 30% less than market value due to the fact it needs some modernization.

I like it because I could buy it cash and do it up as a project.
It's get nice features and has upgraded windows not sure about listing on them....

Would you buy it?

What are the pitfalls.

I have a bit of skin in the game as I currently specialise in carpentry / refurbishment on listed buildings I get most of the work through a specialist conservation surveyor.


I would say only consider buying it if you love the property and see yourself as a custodian of the building for the period you live there.

In terms of your financial risk in purchasing, that would depend on A) the construction and B) what work has been done on the building. Construction is important as say a listed property built with brick is less likely to have serious hidden structural decay like a timber frame building. In terms of what work has been done…..modern materials like render, plasterboard, emulsion paint can stop a listed building from breathing and damp can be a serious issue.


You mention doing it up as a project: you can’t just rip stuff out, it has to be approved, you can do repairs but conservation officers will prefer you keep them informed.

If you want to do it up as a project, you need to appreciate you should use traditional materials: lathe and plaster on walls using lime plaster, limewash rather than emulsion paint, floors would need to be limecrete not screed. Etc etc.