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Workbench Vice advice

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tibi

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Hello,

I will finish building my 4x4m workshop in a few weeks and the next project will be to build myself a proper workbench. I will be working mainly with handtools, so it must be sturdy enough not to jump around the workshop when using coarser planes. Size is 2100 x 600 mm. I might eventually add some tool storage thing at the last laminated board from the back.

This is a very simple design I made up. Material is beech. Legs are 125x150 mm and the laminated top is 125 mm thick. It will be made of two parts that will not be glued together (maybe there will be the removable split tool holder in the middle) All the joints are mortice and tenons. I will mostly not chop out mortices, but I will leave out an empty space during the lamination and gluing wherever possible.
Workbench One v2.jpg


I would like to buy two identical vices. One will be on the right front and one will be on the left side (as I am left-handed). I do not want to build a leg vice, because Benchcrafted hardware is too expensive and I am already way over my limit on building my workshop. To keep things simple, I would avoid a tail vice/wagon vice. I am deciding between two alternatives

1625775878077.png
1625775901952.png

pictures are from fine-tools.com

Which one would you choose and why? Or is the selection of two identical vices a bad idea?

Thank you.
 

Cabinetman

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Every single person on here will have a different opinion on vices, so I may as well be first and say the record style blue one on the front, I’ve never found a need for an end vice.
I would just say that if you are finding you have spent too much you could certainly save some money on your bench 125 mm thick top is massively more than you need. My benchtop is 75 mm thick in Beech and certainly doesn’t need to be any thicker, also bench holdfasts won’t work very well on such a thick top, again I think your legs are way more than is needed 4” square is more than enough. Ian
 

Orraloon

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I agree on the price of the benchcrafted vices. I mean if one was under the tree at Christmas that would be great but in the real world something more modest has to do. I have a screw like your second pic as my front vice and small secondhand vice as the tail vice with a home made dog. They have been in use for over 8 years now and I am still happy with the setup.
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P1010007.JPG


Cabinetman is right about the top and leg sizes. Save a bit of wood and the money saved can go towards vices. A split top is also a good idea as you can use clamps. The 2 halves of the top will also fit through a thicknesser so save a bit of handplane work flattening the top. I would not bother with a center tool holder as things sticking up just get in the way.
Anyhow happy bench building.
John
 

jcassidy

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Keep an eye on auctions and car boots. I picked up a 52 1/2 Record voice for GBP22
 

tibi

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Another question, if I opt for the record type vise, do you install it flush with the front of the workbench or it is prodruding? Both types have advantages and disadvantages. What is best for you?
 

Just4Fun

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For the small items I typically work on I haven't found either one to be significantly better. For larger items I would probably prefer flush mounting to make it easier to clamp the other end of the item to the front face of the bench.
 

tibi

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For the small items I typically work on I haven't found either one to be significantly better. For larger items I would probably prefer flush mounting to make it easier to clamp the other end of the item to the front face of the bench.
Thank you.
 

Cabinetman

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My opinion is that you sink the back jaw into a large mortise in the underside of the benchtop, this shows mine, also shows a black dog sticking out level with the vice bars to support long pieces, also shows a bench holdfast. Ian PS, the holdfast can also go through the dog holes in the front apron to hold pieces that way.
A3C50EC9-EC8C-409A-BDCD-1876795D9F5B.jpeg
 

jcassidy

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I prefer flush mounted so I can plane the edge of long board,, clamp big boards for sawing vertically, etc etc.
Back in vocational school the vice were proud and I remember it was an embuggurance.

I also think you will regret two face mounted vice.
 

tibi

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My opinion is that you sink the back jaw into a large mortise in the underside of the benchtop, this shows mine, also shows a black dog sticking out level with the vice bars to support long pieces, also shows a bench holdfast. Ian PS, the holdfast can also go through the dog holes in the front apron to hold pieces that way. View attachment 113744
The problem is that I will not have an apron. So i need to mount it underneath the laminated top. I will create holes for a holdfast in the leg on the opposite front side.
 

Phil Pascoe

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Another question, if I opt for the record type vise, do you install it flush with the front of the workbench or it is prodruding? Both types have advantages and disadvantages. What is best for you?

Mount it so the inner (wooden) jaw is flush - you can always pack the workpiece off (eg. if it's curved), but you haven't the option to bring it closer to the bench if mounted proud. I've yet to hear a valid argument for leaving it proud.
 

tibi

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Cabinetman

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Here you are Questions Answered – Flush-to-Face or Protruding Vises - Paul Sellers' Blog
Although, I do not know if the argument is valid for you.
Sorry Tibi, Well I looked at it and he didn’t convince me at all in fact I would dare to say he’s just plain wrong. If no other reason than doing it the other way you will not damage your tools on a big lump of metal just where you’re working. And why wouldn’t you want to support your work against the edge of the top – forget whether the bench has an apron or not.
Edit. Wrong was the wrong word, it’s a subjective matter I’m sure neither of us would ever convince the other!
 
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tibi

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Sorry Tibi, Well I looked at it and he didn’t convince me at all in fact I would dare to say he’s just plain wrong. If no other reason than doing it the other way you will not damage your tools on a big lump of metal just where you’re working. And why wouldn’t you want to support your work against the edge of the top – forget whether the bench has an apron or not.
My reasoning is the same as yours. As I am inexperienced, I wanted to ask if some of his reasons are of great importance. Because I would personally make it flush too, so that I can use a holdfast in a leg on the other end to hold a long board when edge jointing.
 

Cabinetman

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My reasoning is the same as yours. As I am inexperienced, I wanted to ask if some of his reasons are of great importance. Because I would personally make it flush too, so that I can use a holdfast in a leg on the other end to hold a long board when edge jointing.
Hi tibi, I just edited my post as there are different views on these things. If you are inexperienced and wanting to know about workholding you can do a great deal worse than look at a rather long video from Mike Siemsen,
One of the few people I pay any attention to on YouTube.
 

Phil Pascoe

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My reasoning is the same as yours. As I am inexperienced, I wanted to ask if some of his reasons are of great importance. Because I would personally make it flush too, so that I can use a holdfast in a leg on the other end to hold a long board when edge jointing.
I have a piece of Spur type shelf bracket support inset into both the leg and the dead man - I just stick a shelf bracket under anything I need to support away from the vice.
 

paulm

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Here's how I flush fit mine some years back, easy enough and gives the most flexibility and functionality in use I reckon.

 
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