Workbench squareness

[BigShot]

Is there a particular benefit to a workbench top being square to its base?
If planning to use dog holes on bench and vice makes a difference to that question, that's what I'm planning.

I've been given a very basic workbench (the most advanced joinery on it is a rebate) which, for now, is where I'll be getting things done.

When I assembled it I had a lapse in concentration. Long story short it was only once I was working on it and spotted an uneven shadow cast by the top onto the top rail that I realised it wasn't square.

So...

I can leave it as it is, or I can unscrew, square and re-fix.

If I square it, it's going to mean needing to re-drill too, otherwise I'll end up with pilot slots rather than pilot holes and something tells me that's not in the recipe for sturdy - and I need all the sturdy I can get with this gratefully received rickety-bench.

Once this is settled it's on to fitting vices and drilling dog holes.


Thanks.

 

[John15]

If the top can be easily removed I would do so, square it up on the sub-frame, then re-drill for the screws and re-fix it correctly.

John

 

[beech1948]

Also consider using some 2x4 or whatever size you feel will work as extra bracing.

Benches rack in different ways depending on what you are doing.

Planing gives a right to left racking motion ( assuming your right handed) so brace to prevent that. Rather than just screwing on a chunk of wood try to fit it between the uprights (tightly) as well as screwing.

Legs can be racked front to back as well as twisted so a leg brace pays dividends.

Finally bracing the back in the same way as the front will pay dividends.

It need not be expensive as low cost 2x will work.

Maybe if you are disassembling it consider putting a 2x6 or even a 2x8 unsawn piece across the front and back with the ends tenoned into the legs and maybe even with a captive through bolt at each end.

It sounds a lot but may take only a day or a weekend at most and maybe £35.

Hope this is some help

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Bigshot.

The bench needs to be plane too. So check it with a level, front to back, end to end.

When I started woodwork, it was sometime before I realised why I couldn't get an edge that was square, when planing in the vice. I thought it was just ham-fisted me! :mrgreen: As soon as I realised the work was leaning towards me, I fixed it. Yes, I could just have carried on, checking the edge with a square to correct the problem, by planing the 'slope' away, but it's much better to be level straight away! So I sorted the bench. In my case I lifted the front of the bench a fraction, using wedges.

In my present shop, my floor is level, so the problem isn't there any more. A truly plane bench surface also helps when flattening wider stock against the planing stop, on the bench.

HTH

John

 

[BigShot]

It's done.
Thanks for the input.

To a similar "as close as I'm willing to take it" standard as the base, the top is now square.

Level is another matter entirely and as the garage floor slopes quite steeply, this is one I'll ponder before figuring out the best approach. Probably wedges but at the moment I'm not even quite sure if the bench is where I want it to stay. I'll be taking a somewhat flexible approach to things until I have an idea of what problems I face in there - then I'll set down with a measured drawing and actually plan things properly.

I do like the idea of bracing the bench, but disassembling to get it there is a big ask. Haha. I'll probably brace it with some reclaimed wood (not really willing to spend money on this bench if avoidable) tennoned and pegged or bolted in as described if it's an issue I'm motivated to solve and the wood is lying around the place.

Dare I ask about square and round dogs?
Haha. Probably best not, eh?

 

[AndyT]

In my opinion and experience, having the bench top flat and level is important. Having a flat or level floor is not important.

My own workshop floor has gentle waves in it from the original Victorian concrete so the effective bench height is an inch or two greater at one end than the other. But you develop an internal spirit level and learn to cut vertical or horizontal. Looking at a sloping bench would make that much harder.

 

[BigShot]

Sold.
Thanks Andy.

So to get back to the original question, because I'm curious about this from a practical point of view...

Assuming all other things equal, is there a tangible benefit to having the top and base square to eachother when it comes to the actual working of wood?

 

[Benchwayze]

Bigshot.

In my shop, which is a garage by design, the floor slopes away towards the door from midpoint. My bench is on the level area, but I have other machines that live in the part with the slope. The only way around this would be to lay a wooden floor that is level. It doesn't affect the operation of my chop-saw, or planer, so I tolerate it. But if your floor is bad, maybe laying some mini joists for boarding out would help.

Regards John

 

[AndyT]

Sold.
Thanks Andy.

So to get back to the original question, because I'm curious about this from a practical point of view...

Assuming all other things equal, is there a tangible benefit to having the top and base square to eachother when it comes to the actual working of wood?

I think this can get very difficult to discuss in words and a picture would help a lot.

I don't know whether the out of squareness is because the legs are not vertical, or because the front-to-back rails are not at right angles to the bench front edge when seen in plan, or because the side to side rails are not parallel to the bench edge.

Probably it won't matter but it will depend a bit on how you use any part of the frame to help hold the wood you are working on.

 

[BigShot]

I see what you mean, Andy.
The base is - as far as I could get it - square in all the major directions. The top was out of square in the horizontal, so the top edges were not parallel with the top rails. Yaw, in aeronautical terms. Now it's been rotated back that's basically done.

That's what prompted me to ask in the first place, I was trying to figure out if there might be some techniques where the bench itself is used to square or hold a workpiece in some way that the top being rotated away from square might prevent.


John - I've been thinking about maybe levelling the floor in exactly that way. Nice to have it confirmed as non-stupid. The jury's out just now though as this place is a rental so I'm not in any great hurry to commit to any large jobs like that when the landlord could decide not to renew the lease at the end of the term. If the slope becomes a real problem I may give it a go.
The garage is on a bit of a hill, so there's no luxury of a level bit to work in. I could probably put the bench across the room by the end-window (uphill, opposite the main doors) but that'd take some messing about as there's a step up there and the roof may be leaky too. Not that it's not a tiny bit leaky over my bench just now, but still.

 

[Benchwayze]

I see what you mean, Andy.
The base is - as far as I could get it - square in all the major directions. The top was out of square in the horizontal, so the top edges were not parallel with the top rails. Yaw, in aeronautical terms. Now it's been rotated back that's basically done.

That's what prompted me to ask in the first place, I was trying to figure out if there might be some techniques where the bench itself is used to square or hold a workpiece in some way that the top being rotated away from square might prevent.


John - I've been thinking about maybe levelling the floor in exactly that way. Nice to have it confirmed as non-stupid. The jury's out just now though as this place is a rental so I'm not in any great hurry to commit to any large jobs like that when the landlord could decide not to renew the lease at the end of the term. If the slope becomes a real problem I may give it a go.
The garage is on a bit of a hill, so there's no luxury of a level bit to work in. I could probably put the bench across the room by the end-window (uphill, opposite the main doors) but that'd take some messing about as there's a step up there and the roof may be leaky too. Not that it's not a tiny bit leaky over my bench just now, but still.

Gotcha. I always assumed my garage floor sloped, in order to give a run-off, for whenever a wet vehicle was parked in it. As the garage is half-inside the house building, that would make sense. Especially as the garage isn't really fume proof, one reason I never used it as a garage; the other being it was big enough to get a car into, but I couldn't open the doors to get out! :mrgreen:

 

[rafezetter]

I see what you mean, Andy.
The base is - as far as I could get it - square in all the major directions. The top was out of square in the horizontal, so the top edges were not parallel with the top rails. Yaw, in aeronautical terms. Now it's been rotated back that's basically done.

That's what prompted me to ask in the first place, I was trying to figure out if there might be some techniques where the bench itself is used to square or hold a workpiece in some way that the top being rotated away from square might prevent.

It all depends a bit on how you work, but many people advocate that at least one side of a bench be 90deg side to top; that is also flush with the top edge and with no yaw at all. This is because for example you may have constructed a drawer dovetail joint and are in the process of cleaning up the joint areas / flatting out the boards, with the joint resting over that bench top / side rail intersection. If there is an issue with one of the sides pressing to a non flat, non 90deg surface it may induce either a slight wobble, which may affect your planing or too much pressure to the joint itself - say if the bottom of the side rail was protruding further out so the 90deg dovetail joint was not flush to the top edge intersection - causing it to fail somehow. Some people have constructed a mini bench - sometimes as part of a moxon vice setup that sits on top of the main bench with much more accurate construction to aid them in these situations.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/81013