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Workbench Build aka Paul Sellers style

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Bm101

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Can't really picture how that Paul Sellers comment makes any sense at all as you say. My little lass is 2 and she's bright enough and strong enough to wind the handle up. Not always the right way mind... but she is two. Bear in mind a lot of people add wooden cheeks to extend their vices jaws does this make it harder to use. I'm lost on this one. Sounds like complete guff to me.
 

NickN

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thetyreman":o5amt3ad said:
where do you people buy your coach screws from?

I was planning on installing it today, got some M10 coach screws and then some nuts and washers, amazingly the nuts don't even fit! not happy at all, not only that I found out the correct size is M12 not M10, I'll have to get a refund. The only M12 coach screws they did have were way too long, minimum 100mm, and I want M12 75mm long coach screws.

If I buy some online, where would you recommend getting good quality M12 coach screws, nuts and washers? I only need 2, and the nuts MUST fit for certain.

I've got the M6 coach screws for the jaws into the apron, but again the nuts don't bloody fit, so I can actually use the M6 coach screws and washers but not the nuts...

excuse the pun but it's driving me nuts, indeed one feels like a nutter for asking
May need to clear up a bit of terminology here :)

Coach screws are just heavy duty screws usually with a hex head for driving with a hex driver bit in a drill, or a spanner if you like hard work. Great for joining two bits of timber with a stronger hold than a normal wimpy thin screw. And you can't put a nut on these, it's not a suitable thread.

Coach or carriage bolts are standard bolts which usually have a round head, no slot of any kind, and usually a square neck (or cup square) that bites into the timber, or fits into a recess in the metal being attached to the wood, and prevents the nut being able to turn the bolt - these are most useful to put on the outside of shed door hinges to prevent them being undone from the outside.

Now it looks as if Paul Sellers (https://paulsellers.com/2016/06/bench-vise-part-ii/) used coach screws with no nut on the other end, to save boring a hole right through the workbench, but you certainly can use bolts instead with a nut on the inside.

But you would need to be careful, do you need a square neck, indeed, has your vice jaw got a square recess, or only round? If only round, you actually need a hex bolt, which will fasten right up to the jaw surface, and you can hold that with the spanner while using another to tighten the nut:



And here's an Ebay listing to help, they have 75mm M12 and supply a free nut and washer with each bolt.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M12-A2-STAINL ... 0812051370
 

thetyreman

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now it all makes sense :oops: you can probably tell I am new to this, so it looks like I don't need the nuts, where I was going wrong was thinking that the hex screw head on a coach screw was actually a nut.... :lol: I guess this is the downside to learning on your own with no mentor to guide you. It's a lot clearer now, so I can continue after all, don't need no nuts, just the coach screws and washers.
 

memzey

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Toolstation and Screwfix sell plenty of both (that's where I have got mine from in the past). Steer clear of Wickes though- stupidly over priced.
 

MrTeroo

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bugbear":33ckl2vm said:
You might consider whether you have the upper body strength to handle the larger vise. Most men and women will have a weight to strength ratio capable of working the 9”. Going to the 10” may take more shoulder, upper arm and indeed finger-squeezing strength
Maybe he is referring to operating the vice when using the quick release mechanism?
 

NickN

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thetyreman":kug4uhxk said:
now it all makes sense :oops: you can probably tell I am new to this, so it looks like I don't need the nuts, where I was going wrong was thinking that the hex screw head on a coach screw was actually a nut.... :lol: I guess this is the downside to learning on your own with no mentor to guide you. It's a lot clearer now, so I can continue after all, don't need no nuts, just the coach screws and washers.
I know the feeling well, I stood for quite a while in B&Q puzzling over coach screws and coach bolts before enlightenment gradually dawned - it's the kind of thing no-one ever teaches you at school, well not when I was there anyway. Having now used both types in different scenarios it's become very clear, but it certainly wasn't to start with.

And yes, as long as you haven't drilled the hole right through and out the other side, you can just stick the coach screws in, job done. Some of them even come with 'washers' attached to the head.
 

thetyreman

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finishing is now done! I applied a layer of de-waxed shellac as a sanding sealer and sanded it to 150 grit before applying 2 layers of varnish. It is johnstones quick dry satin indoor varnish, which is a water based varnish, I didn't want anything shiny, and it looks better than expected, although it would probably look a bit cold and pasticy without the layer of shellac.

after experimenting with different bolts, I have concluded that M14 is the perfect size for this particular vice, so at the moment I'm just waiting until a couple of them arrive with some washers then I can finally fit it.

both M10 and M12 are too thin.

the bench is upside down to make it easier to fit the vice, and so I could paint the legs with 2 layers of varnish easier.

I still need to micro adjust the oak spacer, on one side it's about 1-2mm thicker than the other, this will be planed until the vice is perfectly square to the top,

I think it's all going to come together next week, I've been busy lately hence the lack of updates.

here's some pics in the meantime.
 

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skipdiver

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Very nice tyreman, looks like it will be a pleasure to use. I'm getting the urge to make one despite having a perfectly good (though cobbled together) bench already. I have been watching the Wranglestar Youtube vids of him making it and itching to do some hand cut mortice and tenons. Been too long since i did any by hand for pleasure instead of by machine for profit.
 

memzey

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Very nice! Moody black and white pics a la Chris Schwartz as well - what's next, a roubo with a sliding dead man? :)
 

thetyreman

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another update, I have installed the vice! it's a lot more work than expected, I used a brace and bit with a 12mm auger for the M14 coach screws, and pre drilled holes for the M6 coach screws that go into the apron. It was well worth using thicker screws instead of M12 in this case, I'd recommend the biggest size you can get hold of that fits, I got my coach screws from bolt world on ebay, I'd recommend them.

currently making the vice jaws from some air dried oak, that I have had for over a year, then I'll take the final shots, even without the jaws it's ridiculous how much easier working is. I tried sawing some oak and planing and it was very satisfying.

I also installed the vice around 1.5 inches from the left leg, instead of it being right next to the leg, the metal vice jaws are around 6mm from the top instead of 4mm, but I won't loose sleep over that, I made sure it was perfectly square to the top, it needed an extra washer underneath on one side. When you tighten the M6 coach screws it goes nice and flush against the apron, so don't worry if there's a slight gap there as there was with mine, the gap closes.

here's some shots, later this evening or tomorrow might be the final shots and I will also do a kind of summary in my last post, saying what I might have done differently e.t.c,

I'm both sad that it's almost over and very excited about getting to use it with some oak jaws, just looking at it makes me want to work.
 

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NickN

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Wow! That looks fantastic, my hat off to you for a job that looks amazingly well done.

I can say that if my bench is even close to being that good I will be over the moon with happiness.

And, personally (as I know it's a source of, er, discussion) it's nice to see that the rear vise jaw is mounted on rather than flush with the apron - as it's the way I'm currently planning on doing mine. And should an unusually long piece need support along the front, well, I'll either use apron dogs or the Sellers 'tail-vise-with-sash-cramp' method. They do say that the woodworker's vise is the 'third hand', it must be great finally having a useable bench with one.

Can you still move the bench singlehandedly? :mrgreen:
 

Wizard9999

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Maybe a dumb question, but how will you fit the oak jaws to the back of the vice as the wholes in th face of the vice have been used to fit the vice to the bench?

Terry.
 

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bugbear

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Leaving aside all the ("fascinating") arguments about having a front apron, why is the rear apron so thick and heavy?

BugBear
 

swb58

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bugbear":18xov1iq said:
thetyreman":18xov1iq said:
I've gone for an eclipse vice, it's a 9 inch one, similar to a record 52 1/2 E,

link here for anyone that's interested: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

they're actually cheaper than old vintage ones, and according to sellers just as good, https://paulsellers.com/2016/06/on-vises-part-i/

should arrive next week so I will find out.
Since you've actually got the vise, can you explain what Sellers is talking about here:

This vise is described as a 9” vise, but they go smaller and larger. Smaller ones can work well for children but for most adults the 9” will best take care of their needs. The larger version, the 10”, is also a good choice and what holds a lot holds a little. You might consider whether you have the upper body strength to handle the larger vise. Most men and women will have a weight to strength ratio capable of working the 9”. Going to the 10” may take more shoulder, upper arm and indeed finger-squeezing strength, but how you measure this is a matter of trying the vise somewhere. Not always possible and most companies will shy away from returns because of shipping costs. A 9” vise has always been large enough for me. Perhaps this is a good guide?

(confusing stuff in red)

Fitting the vise requires strength (although there are some tricks that help), but I've never found much strength required to operate one. A vise screw amplifies your strength, that's the entire point.

:?

BugBear
Apologies if I've missed 'the' answer to this, but I'd imagine it's to do with the force applied by the screw to a given area. If both the 9" and 10" models use the same screw then it's going to apply less pounds per square inch to the 10" vice if the screw is tightened to the same amount.
 

thetyreman

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I've finished it this evening, wow what a feeling, it's actually done :D

I used a couple of 1.5 inch thick pieces of oak, which were cut to size, and later planed level with the benchtop, for the back jaw I made it from one solid piece and chiselled out the waste and made holes for the m6 screw heads, I used brass screws to attach it to the apron which looked so much better, plus it won't mess up the oak and contrasts with the dark green well.

I planed the oak jaws by hand using a no4, then finished with a card scraper, with de-waxed shellac as a sealer, not sure what to do with them for the final finish, or whether I will be putting leather on them or not.

All I need to do is put a final layer of varnish on the bench top to help hide where I planed a bit of it when planing the jaws flush, I think it needs one final 3rd layer of varnish.

I have learnt so much and feel a lot more confident now, perhaps the only thing I would change is taking more time when cutting the tenons for the legs, a couple of them were a bit out of square which created a slight gap. What surprised me the most was how much time it took and also how little money it cost me, as time goes on and I use the bench I will consider making a couple of dogs, and definitely some drawers for storage at the ends.

It's going to take quite a while to get used to the idea that I actually have my own workbench.

I have to say thankyou to all of you who followed this thread, this is genuinely one of the best and most enjoyable projects I've ever done!
 

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MattRoberts

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Looks fantastic mate, well done. You've really inspired me to spend the time to make my bench properly, and make sure not to scrimp on the little details just because it's a workbench - so thank you :)
 
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