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A

Anonymous

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I started this idea in the 'UK Magazines revisited' thread.

I think there is a place for it.

Many people have expressed their varying disatisfaction with what they consider possible bias as regards Tool and Machine reviews in the UK Woodworkers Magazines.

Howz about a Woody which; can only improve our lot methinks :)

What do you think guys and girls
 

Charley

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Oh no do we really need another woodworking magazine to buy each month? :? :wink: I finally just got it down to two magazines a month :)

I can see your point about magazines reviewing tools from companys that advertise in their mag I don't think it affects the review too much. I've found most of GW'in reviews to be spot on...
 

Charley

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PS: Don't forget the reviews on UKW and SDA - we haven't got any advertisers/sponsors :wink:
 
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Anonymous

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Oh no do we really need another woodworking magazine to buy each month?
Not so much another one charley, more a better and more comprehensive one in regard to reviews and consumer information

As good as our own review info is it only touches the surface imo.

Any extra info methinks is always gonna be welcome.

Good info about timber and suppliers, possibly more competition within UK Tool supplies ( much needed if some of the latest threads are to be believed about purchasing from the States)

I remember only a year ago how I had to search and search to get similar relevant info.

Didn't get that much then, though I have to say this forum was a major help in what I did find.
 

johnjin

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Hi
The problem with reviews on here and SDA is that they are mostly one person reviewing one tool and nothing to compare it with. With Bilzee's method the same people are reviewing many tools of the same type and completely independantly of any outside pressure.
just my thoughts on the matter.

John
 

Alf

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Would there be sufficient market for a mag solely devoted to tool reviews though? :? Certainly a monthly one would be pushing it a bit; perhaps quarterly?

Cheers, Alf
 

johnjin

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Alf
I think you've got a good point there especially about a monthly edition but even a yearly one could be very good and I certainly would be in the queue to buy it.

John
 
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Anonymous

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Would there be sufficient market for a mag solely devoted to tool reviews though?
Doesn't just have to be just Tool reviews Alf, though that would be the mainstay.

Tiimber, timber suppliers/supplies, woodworking jigs, workshops/designs, in fact everything that comes within our ambit.

It may well stray into general DIY but hey, we are all into that :wink:

Edit: Alf, on reflection a quartely edition would probably fit the bill nicely :)

With Bilzee's method the same people are reviewing many tools of the same type and completely independantly of any outside pressure.
Good point John, my thoughts exactly
 
G

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There are many problems I can see,cost, possible litigation,accuracy etc. Whereas a manufacturer may ignore PERSONAL opinions on a web site like this one they may take a different view altogether if they faced what they considered defamation in a PUBLICATION. Thats why large publishing concerns have legal departments.Nice idea but enormous problems involved.
 
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Anonymous

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There are many problems I can see,cost, possible litigation,accuracy etc
Jaymar, reviewing goods and services is what the 'Which Magazine'( the consumers associaition) does.

No more of a problem than testing and recommending say 'Washing Machines' or any other thing that they test.
 

sawdustalley

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Which already do reviews of things such as Cordless Drills.


I agree, its a good idea. As charley said there are many review websites on the net
 

Midnight

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gets my vote Bilzee.... who knows.... if it helps some poor unfortunate avoid buyin the same saw as I fell for......

personally I've always had a prob believing the independance of a tool in a mag review. Sponsorship issues..... yea...??

edit.... make that a tool review in a mag....

sheesh.......it's been a long day.....
 

sawdustalley

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When I do my reviews (On SDA or for Magazines) I always try to be as honest as possible.

Some of the manufactures will moan, and some will not.

For instance, on a recent bandsaw review I did - they didn't like me saying its performance was improved greatly with an after market blade. However this statement is a fact, if you spend £100 or £1000 on the machine, an aftermarket blade will usually prove better quality no questions there i'm sure you will agree.
 

Midnight

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For instance, on a recent bandsaw review I did - they didn't like me saying its performance was improved greatly with an after market blade.
James... help me out here.... would that then be an accurate review of the saw, or of the aftermarket blade??

Note I'm NOT trying to be arguementative.... I need to look into this stuff........shortly....
 

Adam

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Just a thought - Which? don't produce a magazine for other much more significant hobbies - do you think it would be economic for woodworking? I'm wondering if they haven't got a "Fishing Which?" with reviews on nets/rods/courses/clothing/reels etc - and this is a massive hobby, why would they produce one for woodworking? Folowing on - there isn't one for walkers/outdoor pursuits - with clothing/boots etc (and thats Britains #1 hobby) - with the largest number willing to purchase presumably - or Sports Which? With reviews on clothing, sports shoes, rackets etc. These all have far larger potential subscriber bases and have nothing "dedicated". Whilst I think the idea is good in principle - I just can't see they are going to employ the level of expertise needed to undertake review - you'd need a dedicated engineering team dismantling and checking all the products, long term tests (and remember their staff aren't likely to be into WW, so unlike the tests on cars - they can't get internal staff to do the tests), they'd need much larger workshops - as e.g. 10+ tablesaws under test requires a big space to test, and whilst it's easy for most people to quickly identify whether a consumer product meets its function - would you be expecting them to grade the surface smoothness out of a thicknesser for example - just think how much tests like that would cost to run - and imagine selling 5K copies - even at a £5 each - thats only £25K - that would only buy a few tables saws and a test - what about P/T, Routers, spraying equipement, hand tools, compressers, jigs (dovetail etc), bench drills, bandsaws - I don't think this idea is likely to be taken up. If we are going to lobby them - we should be lobbying them to cater more for us in the general magazine - they did routers recently - we should be lobbying for other items in the general catalogue - rather than trying to get our own "magazine". I know two people who work at Which? and cost is the #1 pressure they face - it's economic to produce Buying a Car Which? etc - as a large number of people are willing to pay a few £'s for a magazine - I suspect the sales on a print run on a woodworking magazine would hardly cover the printing/editorial costs, never mind the cost of tests (and these are very comprehensive as you can imagine as they have to be 100% accurate to avoid lawsuits) nor the capital cost of buying equipment. As a good comparison - digital cameras/video cameras cost in the same region as lots of WW tools (e.g. £50 - £2000 and they dont have a dedicated magazine - and the level of interest in the general public is much higher.

I would love to see such a WW Which? but I think realistically - that a few more articles is the most we could hope for.

What do you think?

Adam
 

Alf

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Adam,

I'm afraid that's pretty much my take on it too. :( In a similar vein, every time I wonder why the main terrestrial telly channels don't have a single woodwork related programme, I think about how many more model building enthusiasts (f'rinstance) there must be than woodworkers, and they don't get anything either. Really we're pretty lucky in how much choice we do get, considering our lowly place in the great scheme of things :wink:

Still, worth a try Billzee; it might at least prompt them to consider covering a few more tools in amongst the washing machines and microwaves. :D

Cheers, Alf
 
A

Anonymous

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Adam's comments pretty well sum up the situation regards testing machinery and power tools. It's seems almost a full time occupation here at GW for the team. However I'd like to take the opportunity to point out that GW's testing has always been 100% independent and is never influenced by whether a manufacturer advertises or not. Sure we need advertising to help pay for the magazine, we couldn't do this on reader sales alone, and sure we inform manufacturers that their kit is being featured in a particular issue and would they like to take the opportunity to advertise as well, but that's it. We don't as a rule tell them how their kit has performed until after the issue has gone to press.

Admittedly, we do not have the clout of say the BBC, so cannot afford to be quite so scathing in our comments on poor product (such as perhaps those on cars by a certain programme!), especially when the manufacturer has just provided us with the kit to look at (no, we can't afford to buy in kit to test either, though sometimes we will if a manufacturer will not make it available for a test!!), which is subsequently returned (somewhat more battered that when it arrived!). However, we do report a piece of kit as we find it, and have always sought to be the most accurate and thorough in our testing of any woodworking magazine, which I think we succeed in. To my knowledge we are the only magazine to devote an in-house facility to this, to ensure that we test everything under similar circumstances rather than rely on freelance testers who may have a varied approach to testing. Furthermore, all of the principal editorial staff here at GW Towers have an extensive professional woodworking background in a wide variety of fields, and are not just journalists - something I'm not sure can be said of some other magazines.

Nuff said

Pete
 
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Anonymous

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petemartin":by5bxkgb said:
and have always sought to be the most accurate and thorough in our testing of any woodworking magazine, which I think we succeed in. To my knowledge we are the only magazine to devote an in-house facility to this, to ensure that we test everything under similar circumstances rather than rely on freelance testers


Pete
Nice one Pete. Keep up the good work, this is the kind of approach we need and the one adopted by many (all?) american mags.
In house testing in controlled conditions is the only way to provide the readership with real comparative info over prolonged usage. Having the same people testing the tools should hopefully remove some of the personal preference elements that appear in reviews and present us with a less biased, comparative opinion

Tony
 
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