Woodworking Dust and COPD

[SammyQ]

Can I just make a point about an earlier posting? Smog (London, Los Angles or Beijing) is a petrochemical mixture and differs somewhat from the particulates we generate from toothed machines. Sure, the breathing problems from either still affect the lungs, but we are looking at very different causal agents. For MY money, diesel engines/PM 10 emissions are scary.

Sam

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Monitor with the "Lurker dusty finger test".

That's what worries me! In my workshop it's not so much a bit on your finger (on all surfaces) its more....pass me the JCB bucket!

 

[lurker]

Monitor with the "Lurker dusty finger test".

That's what worries me! In my workshop it's not so much a bit on your finger (on all surfaces) its more....pass me the JCB bucket!

like I say its not rocket science.
It floated up there so you were breathing it in :roll:

On the positive side much of it was too big to be respirable
Your throat filtered that out and you swallowed it or it ended up as snot & gob (sorry to get technical!)
The dangerous stuff is the very fine stuff that you have breathed into your lung sacs

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I wonder when in time that fine stuff exists? Because during it's creation ie when sanding on the lathe, I have a face mask (3M 7500) and the single Vac DX running.

 

[JonnyW]

This is a really interesting topic, as dust extraction and future repertory problems is something I've always given thought to.

I'm a weekend warrior (and some nights through the week also!); I bought the Record RSDE http://www.recordpower.co.uk/product/fine-filter-50-litre-extractor-with-auto-switching--hplv a few years ago, and whilst it's not the dog's nuts, I hope it keeps down on the majority or most of the finer dust. I regularly clean the filters out. I'll have to do the shelf cleaning test and leave it a few days.

I would've bought a larger system if I had the room.

I use a face mask when sanding, routing or cutting up MDF. It's a half decent thing, but an irritation to wear as it steams up my safety specs - which I pretty much wear permanently when I'm working in my garage/workshop. I was interested in the Trend Airace http://www.axminster.co.uk/trend-airace-respirator-323773, so would be interested in your opinions.

Sorry Bob if I've hijacked your post.

Jonny

 

[CHJ]

I wonder when in time that fine stuff exists? Because during it's creation ie when sanding on the lathe, I have a face mask (3M 7500) and the single Vac DX running.

It's a real dilemma to know to what extent you are exposed and when.
I use an older model 3m's full face mask and powered feed.
I run a high volume extractor right at the chuck interface, it'll quite happily take a 75mm cube of wood through to jamb in the impellor and fine dust is dumped outside.
There is also a 9" expelair fan doing likewise behind the lathe position with an open window providing air flow from a different side of the building past me to the extractors.
Yesterday I turned a bit of dry Oak, last evening when I first read this thread and continuing today I have serious sinus and nasal discomfort.

I can see any dust stream from sanding and turning going into the extractor duct like a smoke trail.

But the dust mask pre filter has to have a regular reverse flow flush with a LVHP vacuum or change out so the shop is still getting an overload of dust that's not obvious.

Standing well away from my extractor housing vent you can see a smoke like stream leaving when sanding (extractor has coarse filters to maximise flow).

I think my exposure comes from handling the used abrasives and general shop movements when stuff gets onto my person and not entrapped by extractors or mask.

I'm coming very close to getting a new mask system but the almost £1000 price tag by the time you've added vat. if you go for something that would meet workspace levels is daunting.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

No not at all Jonny, I'm interested in all manner of opinions on this so happy to develop the discussion

 

[JonnyW]

Dear heavens Chaz that's scary; if you're feeling your sinus even with all that tech, what more can you do!

I fear you may need to take your lathe outside !

Thanks for that Bob. Very interesting thread/responses.

Jonny

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Whats the £1000 mask system Chas? The 3M one that Glenn Lucas wears?

 

[CHJ]

Whats the £1000 mask system Chas? The 3M one that Glenn Lucas wears?

I've been looking at the 3M Versaflow, but am trying to research other brands that meet the same levels of protection.
Am considering the addition of the overall hood that can cover the neck and shoulders.One supplier just for reference

As can be seen from this link it's not just the filter it's the headtop mask that determines the P3 level of cover to avoid the reverse airflow when you take a deep breath..

 

[ColeyS1]

Recently looking through Scott and Sargent catalogue and noticed a rather expensive extractor I'd never heard of before. The picture showed it connected to a lathe so may be of interest http://scosarg.com/gyroair-c700-fine-dust-extractor

Coley

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

It is the one that Glenn Lucas uses....very posh Chas!! Look here at 49 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyBjqfq ... -qJB3viEWY

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Recently looking through Scott and Sargent catalogue and noticed a rather expensive extractor I'd never heard of before. The picture showed it connected to a lathe so may be of interest http://scosarg.com/gyroair-c700-fine-dust-extractor

Coley

Yes that might be a tad ambitious for my garage

 

[Woodmonkey]

I am qualified to to perform technical checks on workplaces for respirable dust to national standards.
I can sample using a variety of scientific techniques using fancy equipment backed by Lab analysis.
A meduim sized professional wood shop could be looking at a £10-20 k bill for a full report.

HOWEVER they are all needless
Clean a horizontal surface at about mouth level
If its dusty after 2 working days you have a problem that needs fixing

Oh Christ my house wouldn't pass that test let alone my workshop!

 

[wallace]

Chas I too used the older 3m dustmaster unit but because there only p2 I went down the rubber mask route which I found unpleasant after long use. I have been using the versiflo for a while now and like it. I couldn't afford new price but a friend sold me his old gear. I sold a spare full setup with a new battery and filter on ebay for £200. I wear my mask as soon as I go in the workshop, doesn't matter if I'm making dust or not. When I leave I blow down my clothes and have a shower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOkkOswZHeY

 

[n0legs]

Fitting a 6" bathroom/kitchen extractor fan and venting to the outside has done my workshop/shed the world of good.
Sure it does rob the heat but I can always get warmed back up.

 

[sploo]

It is the one that Glenn Lucas uses....very posh Chas!! Look here at 49 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyBjqfq ... -qJB3viEWY

Amazing to watch someone with that level of "flow" with a gouge. I take it he's pretty good!

I'd love to stump up for the VersaFlow, but I have (a love/hate relationship with) the Trend AirShield. It's well priced and works superbly; it's just a bit heavy and cumbersome and I've gotten through more headbands than I can now recall (and I'm currently on what I believe is the third version of their headband design - having broken my way through the other two).

Whilst I don't have a way of measuring workshop dust levels, one of the biggest differences I've found was from installing a workshop air filter (which I've set up to vent outside).

I tend to work using the Airshield, then do a thorough clean up using a Festool vac that has a Oneida cyclone in front (and is fitted with a HEPA filter), then leave the air filter running for an hour. The big difference I noticed is in the dust smell when I return to the workshop after a lot of cutting - even from just leaving the filter running for 1 hour after I finish.

I figure the filter must be taking a lot of the airbourne dust out, as I don't get the flu-like sensitivity symptoms if I go back in and do some handtool work.

 

[CHJ]

. I wear my mask as soon as I go in the workshop, doesn't matter if I'm making dust or not. When I leave I blow down my clothes and have a shower.

Think you've hit the nail on the head with the care needed, especially the after shop actions. I've been on a prolonged course of medication to reduce my sinus sensitivity, better than having to keep taking anti-histamines, think it has led me to being a bit complacent.
My dustmaster kit is getting a little tired and I think I need to bite the bullet and replace it and re-visit my behaviour on leaving the turning shop.

It's that odd cutting of something on the bandsaw when you don't bother with the mask and the like that is the most dangerous I think despite it having extraction or casual handling of shavings, rags etc. when burning them.

..I figure the filter must be taking a lot of the airbourne dust out, as I don't get the flu-like sensitivity symptoms if I go back in and do some handtool work.

The symptoms you mention are sure way of telling that all is not well and something is getting through the defences, not sure it's enough for long term health problems compared with everyday life exposure but it sure makes the body react and that must be for a reason.

 

[sploo]

The symptoms you mention are sure way of telling that all is not well and something is getting through the defences, not sure it's enough for long term health problems compared with everyday life exposure but it sure makes the body react and that must be for a reason.

In my "yewf" I spent way too much time throwing MDF across a router table in order to make loudspeakers. Sometimes I wore a rubber half face mask, but it was a misery with glasses - so I've probably inhaled way too much of the powdered termite barf. Certainly enough to end up with a degree of sensitivity.

I noticed that even when wearing a half face mask I'd get eye irritation, so getting the AirShield was a revelation. However, I did notice that returning to the garage (even having used dust extraction when cutting) would trigger some sensitivity (and I'd notice a "dusty" smell - likely due to me moving around and making fine dust airbourne again). The air filter however must be doing a good job in that regard as I can go back in without getting the same reaction.

In an ideal world I'd have two workshops - one for power tools, and one for hand tools. In fact; make that three; as I'd have one specifically for the CNC machine (which obviously produces clouds of dust). Not going to happen unfortunately.

 

[lurker]

Chaz,

I planned to post but you have worked it out for yourself with help from Wallace

In my work I spend a lot of time with our operatives who are working with stuff (some of it airbourne) far more hazardous than wood dust.
98% of our contaminations are caused when removing PPE / RPE (respiratory protective equipment)

Before you spend money on more RPE look at your removal techniques.
If I had reactions like yours, I'd certainly be hoovering myself down before taking the RPE off
And then being careful how I did it
If you have a brush in your workshop, get rid of it and use a decent vaccum cleaner
I have 3 dysons in my workshop - all off skips - people chuck them out because they dont know where the filters are and they stop working.

If you do decide to go the RPE route the versaflow is the dogs.
BUT.............although I could have a versaflow system for free, I use Trend Airshield that I paid for.