woodworking bench vice but benchtop mount?

[Homerjh]

Hi all, been googling but cant find anything about this.

In my work area (outhouse from 1930 semi) i have kitchen cabinets for storage of everything (tools/paint/boxes of stuff..) and the benchtop is currently an offcut of kitchen worktop and the other 1/2 is a sheet of OSB.

Looking at vices, all woodwork type seems to be the 'under' bench fitting, however as i have the cabinets i dont want to cut the doors or have doors missing and there is no room to have a bench in there as it is multi purpose.

So are there any woodworking vice that can be fitted on top of the bench, or can you recommend a vice that can clamp instead?

 

[Racers]

This one gets recommend on here often http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tr ... ice-505556 you can fir wooden jaws to stop it marking your work.

Pete

Just spotted this http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tr ... amp-505557

 

[Homerjh]

thanks, will take a look

 

[Jacob]

Bench top vices useless for most woodwork.
If you want to manage without you can do most things by sawing against bench hooks and planing against stops.

 

[Mr_P]

Think this is going to be my next project, middle age and short benches not working well for me.

Bench on bench
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/benchraiser.html

 

[custard]

It's a good question, I guess many people are in a similar position.

Next to my main bench I keep a small table for furniture components or small glue ups.

Sometimes this table gets used in different ways and needs a work holding capability. You can use F Cramps to hold Sash Cramps, nail a stop to the surface, or all sorts of things. But sometimes you really need a vice, and in those circumstances there are two portable vices that I use.

The first is the Z Vice or Zyliss Vice. These have been around for donkeys years and there are loads of used ones on Ebay. I bought it for my boat as its aluminium and won't rust in salt water. Over the years I found more and more uses for it in the workshop and its proven itself as a tough, reliable item that can stand up to fairly hard use.

The second vice is an small, ancient, clamp on metal working vice. Many of the small, modern ones seem poorly made, but some of the older British ones are solid bits of kit. It's next to useless for most woodworking applications but comes in useful for jobs like filing a scratch stock cutter where I don't want the filings on my main bench.

Here's a video showing a bit more about the Zyliss Vice,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiGY1DCyjXY

Good luck!

 

[Brentingby]

Maybe look at these links.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop ... bench.aspx
http://www.finewoodworking.com/woodwork ... nders.aspx

Both have vises and could be made to whatever suitable height you need.

 

[ED65]

So are there any woodworking vice that can be fitted on top of the bench, or can you recommend a vice that can clamp instead?

There are clamp-on woodworker's vices as already linked to and Faithfull, Irwin Record and I think Silverline all offer one too, but these vices tend to be a tad underwhelming. They're both a bit small (most have only 6" jaws) and a bit too lightly constructed for serious woodworking. If you do decide you want to go this route I'd hunt around for a vintage Record or Woden which are bound to be much better made than any cheap modern version, but finding one could take a while.

An alternative route that I'd recommend instead is not fitting a permanent vice at all but instead making a Moxon vice that you clamp to the worktop when you need, and when it's not in use it's stored out of the way on the wall.

The simplest ones I've seen use a pair of clamps in place of twin screws so the engineering is simplicity itself, just three pieces of wood so you can knock one out in half a morning no problem. The clamps can be F-clamps, quick clamps, biggish C-clamps or even pipe clamps. Here's a pipe clamp version and here's an F-clamp version which seems to be the most commonly made.

 

[bugbear]

The second vice is an small, ancient, clamp on metal working vice. Many of the small, modern ones seem poorly made, but some of the older British ones are solid bits of kit. It's next to useless for most woodworking applications but comes in useful for jobs like filing a scratch stock cutter where I don't want the filings on my main bench.

That's a Record Imp, about the best vice of that kind ever made!

Many of these small vices, old OR new are junk.

The Record Imp isn't.

record-imp-vice-t23939.html?hilit=%20record%20imp

(although someone spoke highly of the Woden equivalent recently, "The Titan" IIRC

EDIT; 'twas Scouse.

...and the tiny Woden X260 Titan were both rusty and seized.... I’d not seen a Titan before and was about to buy a Record Imp, but this was, in spite of its size more substantial.

BugBear

 

[custard]

In your situation Homer I'd steer well clear of a Moxon.

Woodworking seems to be increasingly separating into woodworking as actually making stuff, and woodworking as fantasy lifestyle. I guess that's always been the case, with the 19th century aristocrat posturing with his set of "gentleman's tools", but in recent years that divide seems even wider and some "woodworkers" are now like Marie Antoinette pretending to be a shepherdess...which didn't end at all well! The thing is, I'm unsure which side of that dividing line the Moxon belongs.

I'll own up, I've got one. Here it is, complete with a little, height adjustable, cutie pie mini-bench behind to support the tail boards during dovetail transfers.

I thought it would be ideal for hand dovetailing. In theory yes, but in practise it's got some big negatives. Firstly it's expensive, even the wooden screw versions are expensive. Secondly it's very big and its very heavy, so you need a whopping big workshop to store the thing and forearms like a stud bull to whip it on and off your bench. Thirdly it only offers a bit over 2" capacity, fine for dovetailing but as a general purpose vice it's a non starter. And securing it to your bench with F Cramps might be okay for dovetailing, but try routing with it and the vibration will soon shake it loose, so I got these beefy bolts with sleeves to fasten it down more reliably...yet more time and more expense.

The bottom line is that in most workshops there are plenty of quicker, cheaper, easier solutions to the work holding problems that the Moxon addresses. And it's not just me that thinks that way, I was in another furniture maker's workshop recently and noticed he had one under his bench. But like mine it was thick with the dust of non use!

I haven't completely given up on the Moxon yet, I plan on making another bench for my workshop, and I might try incorporating the Moxon hardware into one end of it as a dedicated dovetailing station. But if after that it still languishes unused then it's going straight onto Ebay!

 

[AndyT]

For quite a long time, I made do with a table vice like Racers showed in his second link.
When I got a second one, it was much more use - I could position them as needed according to the size of wood I was working on. If you do use them, you're probably better off buying secondhand. Do make sure to screw pieces of wood onto the jaws - about twice as long as the vice jaws is ok, ie 50% overhang on either side.

 

[Jacob]

Non of the bench top models nor the Moxon are anywhere near as handy as the Record 52 1/2 and similar. Most of them are engineers vices with very limited use for woodworkers. Having to manage without a Record 52 1/2 one is a serious disadvantage - they really are very good. I'd simply do the modifications as necessary and modify your doors etc

 

[tomasg]

Surprised no-one has mentioned the stumac guitar repair vices
Stu mac sells two types ,There are duplicates of the red one for sale thats probably way cheaper than the US stu mac painted in green .
They also sell an interesting looking adjustable ball vise with a boom ,but its quite specialized for angles .
There's also the LMI parrot vice ,not sure if theirs copies of this one though
Just thought id point other kinds out for the craic
Thats a great looking moxon vice custard ,where did you source the hardware from ?
Tomas

 

[ED65]

The first is the Z Vice or Zyliss Vice. These have been around for donkeys years and there are loads of used ones on Ebay. I bought it for my boat as its aluminium and won't rust in salt water. Over the years I found more and more uses for it in the workshop and its proven itself as a tough, reliable item that can stand up to fairly hard use.

Thanks for posting that! Now I know what that nifty looking clamp is in a couple of pictures in old woodworking books. Good to know they're worth having, they often go for very little so I'll keep an eye out for one.

 

[ED65]

I'm not a shill for Moxon vices I swear but none of those negatives custard mentions above have to apply to a DIY jobbie. The reason I mentioned the clamp-based versions is because the cost of the kits is so high, in many cases they end up costing more than a full-size bench vice.

As for the rest of it cost is minimal or non existent. I'm sure most of us have suitable scrap lying around that will make one, it can be plywood, softwood or hardwood or any combination. If you only work in softwoods and don't happen to have anything beefy enough yourself throw together a couple of quick laminations and you're sorted.

Another clear advantage of these versions of the vice is capacity: using the quick clamps I have it would be greater than 300mm! That's well in excess of the capacity of any commercial clamp I can afford. Even if I used C-clamps I estimate I could have a capacity of over 150mm, just under 6", which is pretty respectable. And if you went with pipe clamps... how wide do you need? A couple of feet? No problem.

And lastly weight, that's largely based on the size and thickness of the wooden components. You don't have to factor in the weight of the clamps since in most designs they're not permanently fitted. As to size, these vices don't have to be anywhere as wide as they're commonly done. The smallest I've seen has a working gap about a hand span across which would actually suit a great many users who'll not normally work on boards wider than this. Then with the clamp being narrower the stock used doesn't have to be as beefy to resist bowing so you can save on weight in two ways.

 

[memzey]

It's a good question, I guess many people are in a similar position.

Next to my main bench I keep a small table for furniture components or small glue ups.

Hi Custard. Is that an Emmert PMV on your main bench?

 

[custard]

Hi Custard. Is that an Emmert PMV on your main bench?

Hello Memzey.

I wish! It's just a clone.

Useful if you work with angled, tapered, curved, or shaped workpieces. Like chairs for example,

But for the great majority of woodworkers, making predominantly rectilinear furniture, it's not the best way to go. For example a pattern makers vice is a pain for doing dovetail transfers. Most woodworkers would be far better off with a straightforward Record style vice. Although even there you need to be careful. The idea that Record Vices were built like Panzers is a myth, they're very vulnerable to a beefy fitter using one to press fit a bearing, slipping a pipe over the tommy bar and heaving down with all his sixteen stone. Once that's happened the vice will never work properly again! But hunt around and find a good Record 52 1/2 and it's probably the best solution to 90% of your work-holding needs.

I don't want to bang on, but it goes back to my earlier comment. There's a growing gap between actually making furniture and playing at making furniture. Unfortunately a lot of the drool worthy kit that seems to be available today is really just dilettante accoutrements rather than practical solutions, and I'd hate to leave an aspiring, real world, furniture maker with the impression that any of the olde-worlde or shiny-shiny stuff is remotely necessary for good work.

 

[AndyT]

Homer, another way of looking at your problem is to ask " how can I hold work without a conventional vice at all?"
There are plenty of clever methods, mostly using wedges of one sort or another.
I suggest you make a cuppa and settle down for 25 minutes to watch this video from Roy Underhill as he explains an assortment of dodges and devices:

http://video.unctv.org/video/2365309201/

 

[memzey]

Hi Custard. Is that an Emmert PMV on your main bench?

Hello Memzey.

I wish! It's just a clone.

Useful if you work with angled, tapered, curved, or shaped workpieces. Like chairs for example,







But for the great majority of woodworkers, making predominantly rectilinear furniture, it's not the best way to go. For example a pattern makers vice is a pain for doing dovetail transfers. Most woodworkers would be far better off with a straightforward Record style vice. Although even there you need to be careful. The idea that Record Vices were built like Panzers is a myth, they're very vulnerable to a beefy fitter using one to press fit a bearing, slipping a pipe over the tommy bar and heaving down with all his sixteen stone. Once that's happened the vice will never work properly again! But hunt around and find a good Record 52 1/2 and it's probably the best solution to 90% of your work-holding needs.

I don't want to bang on, but it goes back to my earlier comment. There's a growing gap between actually making furniture and playing at making furniture. Unfortunately a lot of the drool worthy kit that seems to be available today is really just dilettante accoutrements rather than practical solutions, and I'd hate to leave an aspiring, real world, furniture maker with the impression that any of the olde-worlde or shiny-shiny stuff is remotely necessary for good work.

Nice vice. It looks and appears to work just like an Emmert. No good for me (I have a pair of old QR Records) but a clever bit of engineering nonetheless.

I must confess I completely agree with your last paragraph. I'm a novice amateur who has got almost all of his kit from boot fairs and the like and the quality of my old and cheap kit far outstrips my talent's ability to exercise it. Not at all interested in the newest, shiniest bits of kit - can't see the point in most of it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I saw Wadkin (iirc, but pretty sure) pattern makers vices about 30 years ago second hand on sale for £100. I'd have had one could I have afforded it. never saw them again. However my Record 53e does everything I want of it.