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Won't somebody think of "young people"? (Edit: and No, older people aren't "to blame")

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Billy_wizz

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Yes it was. I have dyslexia as well and I've done alright. Sorry if your touchy about it.
I don't care but I know people who have it and allow others to use it as a stick to beat them with as it affects there confidence in themselves so tend to push back!
 

doctor Bob

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I don't care but I know people who have it and allow others to use it as a stick to beat them with as it affects there confidence in themselves so tend to push back!
No make the most of it, it doesn't need to hold you back. My biggest issue is just writing, i write 6's, 9's, d's, p's and q's the wrong way round, same with s's and z's, never sure which way the loop or zigzag goes, makes physical writing slow and now I write in capitals only for ease. As I get older I get more comfortable with it. I have had an extremely professional career in the past but been woodwork for the last 20 odd, I feel comfortable in a trade than an office.
 

beech1948

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How curious. The older people have lots of experience, often just know how best to deal with a problem....the young don't. They have never seen the problem, need to talk endlessly about it and take ages to take action. Its the lack of experience.

Older people have more money or resources in general because they have been working for longer and have learnt to save a little if they can.

Zero hours workers are an anathema and should be banned.

Its not about a battle between young and old but a battle to gain experience and with it better salaries.

I for one am sick of one of my kids telling me that because I now own my house (35yrs mortgages) and have some funds for retirement I am one of the lucky ones. Utter rubbish. I earned it. I did two jobs when young. I was made redundant 2 times. I suffered 15% mortgage rates for 9 months. I started my own company and learned to make better than £150k a year but worked probably 50 to 60 hours a week.

I have little sympathy for today's young who would complain over everything but not bite the bullet and get on with what needs doing.

Learn to survive. To cope with change. To find new ways to make a living. Get it done.
 

Billy_wizz

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No make the most of it, it doesn't need to hold you back. My biggest issue is just writing, i write 6's, 9's, d's, p's and q's the wrong way round, same with s's and z's, never sure which way the loop or zigzag goes, makes physical writing slow and now I write in capitals only for ease. As I get older I get more comfortable with it. I have had an extremely professional career in the past but been woodwork for the last 20 odd, I feel comfortable in a trade than an office.
Oh I get the slow writing general spelling and grammar but I get by I used to get frustrated by how many opertunitys I miss out on to people who have spent there life in a classroom and have a piece of paper that says they should be able to do the job but are very poor at it! While I could do the job in my sleep but didn't have the all important bit of paper!
 

Jelly

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I for one am sick of one of my kids telling me that because I now own my house (35yrs mortgages) and have some funds for retirement I am one of the lucky ones.

...

make better than £150k a year but worked probably 50 to 60 hours a week.
Based on that statement, you're unequivocally fortunate to have been in the position of having earned more than 5 times the median household income, as an individual!

If you're unable to recognise that you're both unusual in your success and that it's inconceivable that everyone could replicate that level of success, then there's a good reason your kids keep trying to open your eyes.
 
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Jameshow

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I'm as active in local politics as I can be without compromising my professional relationships, and I'm an active contributor to central government policy forums, both on my own account as a technical expert in a niche field, and on behalf of Industry and professional bodies.

I don't get anything for all the unpaid work I do on policy, but I genuinely believe that the UK can do so much better so I spend time making the arguments and collaborating with colleagues who also have the desire to see positive change.

I've had the odd letter published by the FT and the Gruaniad, but know better than to think I'd get typeset in the Mail or Express whilst wholly contradicting their editorial stance.



I'm not blaming the elderly per se, I'm saying they're currently the net beneficiary of a particular set of circumstances, it's not their fault but its still where we find ourselves.

If I was going to assign blame, I could start with young people ourselves taking some of it, we don't vote in the same numbers as the older generation and until very recently we've been much less informed about how politics affect their own interests.

However the bulk of the blame lies with a short sighted a political class that's unwilling to address serious issues within our society (which they all claim to value so much) because it's quite complex to discuss that with the nation, compared to saying whatever will get a decent block of voters come election time (even saying inconsistent things to different voters via the magic of targeted ads on the internet), then do whatever seems expedient once in power.

Same as it ever was right? Doesn't mean it's any more right?
Don't you think that a politician speaking straight to the nation addressing the big issues of society rather than either pushing a very far left / right agenda or playing for the middle ground without rocking the boat would be a big breathe if fresh air!

Cheers James
 

Droogs

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No make the most of it, it doesn't need to hold you back. My biggest issue is just writing, i write 6's, 9's, d's, p's and q's the wrong way round, same with s's and z's, never sure which way the loop or zigzag goes, makes physical writing slow and now I write in capitals only for ease. As I get older I get more comfortable with it. I have had an extremely professional career in the past but been woodwork for the last 20 odd, I feel comfortable in a trade than an office.
Bob weren't you an NATS washing machine watcher, how did you cope with the screens of info?
 

Jelly

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Don't you think that a politician speaking straight to the nation addressing the big issues of society rather than either pushing a very far left / right agenda or playing for the middle ground without rocking the boat would be a big breathe if fresh air!

Cheers James
Undoubtedly it would be...

However, I've met several people in local and regional politics who do just that; and my innate cycinicism has been heightened further by watching what happens next...

Their nuanced positions don't gel with the orthodoxy of their respective political parties and/or don't make for good headlines...

Both of which are necessary in order to get the media exposure needed to put them on a national stage, so they end up stuck, whilst loyal ideologues pass them by for opportunities to stand as MP's and the like.

Edit: My experiences of becoming engaged with both politics and government policy have repeatedly reminded me of the quote (inaccurately) ascribed to Otto Von Bismarck:

Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made.
 
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Billy_wizz

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Based on that statement, you're unequivocally fortunate to have been in the position of having earned more than 5 times the median household income, as an individual!

If you're unable to recognise that you're both unusual in your success and that it's inconceivable that everyone could replicate that level of success, then there's a good reason your kids keep trying to open your eyes.
Why can't everyone else replicate that success?
 

Terry - Somerset

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Prices of property may be influenced more by supply and demand, rather than some interaction between rental and ownership model.

Some distortion is caused by second homes and changes in local employment. Where jobs are lost local demand falls, conversely property building tends to lag the growth of new industries.

Costs of purchase as a proportion of income have remained fairly steady - changes in interest rates seems to influence the direction of travel, not immediately impact. Regulation and policy changes also lag events - eg: increased deposits post financial crash were the result of defaults and negative equity.

Rents will tend to reflect the alternative cost of ownership. If rents were materially below the cost of ownership, few landlords would bother to invest - the converse is also true.

As with ownership buy to let popularity may be the result of:
  • collapse of final salary pensions and pension fraud have driven those who can to invest in property as a way to generate income in retirement, and protect their capital
  • low interest rates and annuity rates have made buy to let an apparently cautious and rational option
  • with life expectancy increases, property inherited by beneficiaries in their 50s or 60s who do not immediately need to sell.
IMHO it probably matters little as long as people have somewhere to live. Rental market may need some regulatory changes to give tenants better long term security, and landlords similar security of rental income.

If the goal is to make a homes (rented or owned) more affordable for the young the answer is simple. Build more houses. They will need to be where jobs exist so are likely to be in an area full of affluent nimbys wishing to protect their local environment.
 

Jelly

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Why can't everyone else replicate that success?
If I was being snarky, I'd suggest that you go have a crack yourself and let us know how you get on...


But in terms of a serious answer, if according to ONS data:
  • the mean (not median) household income is £35k,
    and
  • each household has 2.1 working age adults in it,
    then
  • that means that the economy can only support an average of £16.7k per person right now...

So we would need to achieve nearly tenfold (or 1000%) productivity growth across the whole economy, to make it even mathematically possible for everyone to earn £150k...

On average the UK achieves 0.3% productivity growth, so the economy would need to become 3333 times more efficient in order to achieve that outcome; that's patently unrealistic.
 

Bodone

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Sheffield in the 70’s and 80’s was no fun - Every generation seems to have a pivotal struggle. Our children now are more open, enabled and told they can do anything. Reality is a kicker.

And go watch when the wind blows, classroom lessons on hiding under the desk to avoid nuclear annihilation has probably shortened my life, not to mention the pollution and what was in the food, oh and the IRA antics.

My kids 26 and 21, they’re on a journey, they’re optimistic, realistic and work for things. They have so much more confidence than I ever had at their age.

It‘s difficult times, I get that, but do you believe this is the only generation to face hard times?
 

Billy_wizz

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If I was being snarky, I'd suggest that you go have a crack yourself and let us know how you get on...


But in terms of a serious answer, if according to ONS data:
  • the mean (not median) household income is £35k,
    and
  • each household has 2.1 working age adults in it,
    then
  • that means that the economy can only support an average of £16.7k per person right now...

So we would need to achieve nearly tenfold (or 1000%) productivity growth across the whole economy, to make it even mathematically possible for everyone to earn £150k...

On average the UK achieves 0.3% productivity growth, so the economy would need to become 3333 times more efficient in order to achieve that outcome; that's patently unrealistic.
So your either deliberately or accidentally missing my point what's stopping anybody from upping there earning potential from 35k to 150k? And the reason I don't do it is because I've done 80 hour weeks and all nighters before and have settled for the remuneration/effort comprise that I'm happy with
 

planesleuth

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My granddad, shot to pieces at Ypres, sang "We're Here Because We're Here" in the trenches and sang it again when he was teaching me how to make Windsor chairs. So just stop moaning and discussing pointless aspects of life that, in the fullness of time, mean nothing. Accept you're ere cos you're ere and ........go and do something useful !!
 

Rorschach

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How curious. The older people have lots of experience, often just know how best to deal with a problem....the young don't. They have never seen the problem, need to talk endlessly about it and take ages to take action. Its the lack of experience.

Older people have more money or resources in general because they have been working for longer and have learnt to save a little if they can.

Zero hours workers are an anathema and should be banned.

Its not about a battle between young and old but a battle to gain experience and with it better salaries.

I for one am sick of one of my kids telling me that because I now own my house (35yrs mortgages) and have some funds for retirement I am one of the lucky ones. Utter rubbish. I earned it. I did two jobs when young. I was made redundant 2 times. I suffered 15% mortgage rates for 9 months. I started my own company and learned to make better than £150k a year but worked probably 50 to 60 hours a week.

I have little sympathy for today's young who would complain over everything but not bite the bullet and get on with what needs doing.

Learn to survive. To cope with change. To find new ways to make a living. Get it done.
I have a lot of time for what you write in other threads beech, but here you just show your absolutely ignorance of the real world despite your children's best attempts. You are one of those "stop buying fancy coffees with your avocado toast and you will be a millionaire within 10 years" people.
 

Jelly

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As with ownership buy to let popularity may be the result of:
  • collapse of final salary pensions and pension fraud have driven those who can to invest in property as a way to generate income in retirement, and protect their capital
  • low interest rates and annuity rates have made buy to let an apparently cautious and rational option
  • with life expectancy increases, property inherited by beneficiaries in their 50s or 60s who do not immediately need to sell.
IMHO it probably matters little as long as people have somewhere to live. Rental market may need some regulatory changes to give tenants better long term security, and landlords similar security of rental income.

If the goal is to make a homes (rented or owned) more affordable for the young the answer is simple. Build more houses. They will need to be where jobs exist so are likely to be in an area full of affluent nimbys wishing to protect their local environment.
This is in fact a big point, the failure of pension schemes and the closure of final salary schemes to new entrants at a point where an older person changing job might not be feasibly
able to put away enough money in a defined contribution scheme, was instrumental in creating the a demand for low risk, high return investments which kick started by to let.

That should never have been allowed to happen on such a large scale in the first place.


Do you want to earn more?
I wouldn't object to it, and a little extra would certainly make things much more comfortable.

However what would really have been desirable was not being screwed for very low pay (relative to qualification and responsibilities) when I was a younger man... Whilst at the same time facing higher outgoings than I do now.

So what I really want is to be able to look my junior colleagues and staff in the eye when a discussion about money comes up, and know that they're being fairly remunerated and aren't paying over the odds for their living costs.

Because "I've got mine" isn't a sentiment I can get behind, when I can see others in the same (or worse) situation I've been in historically

It‘s difficult times, I get that, but do you believe this is the only generation to face hard times?
No.

However, there's a good range of statistical information to show that on average a person under the age of 39, will be poorer in real term than their parents across most of their adult lives... (OECD Report)

There's also a bunch of statistics to show that the cost of living is rising faster than wages for the 25-34 age group in particular (FT Article ), which has some really negative impacts on people's behaviour and risk perception.


So your either deliberately or accidentally missing my point
I answered the question which you asked, no more no less.

what's stopping anybody from upping there earning potential from 35k to 150k? And the reason I don't do it is because I've done 80 hour weeks and all nighters before and have settled for the remuneration/effort comprise that I'm happy with
You know full well that it's entirely unrealistic that just anybody picked at random could make that kind of money...

However I'll humour you:
  • Starting with employment:
    • Not all people have now, or will ever have the skills or abilities to command a salary of £150k from their employer.
    • There are laughably few posts which pay that kind of money compared to the number adults of working age in the UK, and of those that do pay that well, almost none which aren't as executive directors or working in the financial sector.
    • Even amongst those who have the skills to do so, there's extreme competition for the small number of posts at that level, so some of it will come down to pure dumb luck as to why one equally well qualified candidate gets chosen over another.
  • If we come to the idea of starting a business:
    • Again not everyone has the skills and abilities needed to grow a business to the size where it will support a £150k director's salary,
    • Even if they do, finding the start up capital is a major shortcoming for someone who isn't making a great deal of money to begin with
    • If you're forced to go all in to your business just to have a shot and have no significant personal reserves of cash in case it doesn't work out, then the psychological stress is likely to make you perform less well and make less effective business decisions.
    • Around 60% of small businesses fail with 3 years, which is a pretty terrifying level of risk to take on if you have family comittments... Not everyone is willing or even able to take those kinds of risks.
 

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