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Digizz

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What type of power connectors do most woodworking machines come with i.e. table saws, P/T etc? 13A standard or 16A+ IP44 etc?

I'm specifically looking at the Schepplach TS2000 and HMS260 and a Dust extraction unit. I'm also just starting to plan the electrics in my new log cabin workshop (see other posts). So far I've designed in a 13A ring main and Lighting circuit but also want to put in a separate higher ampage ring main for the higher power machinery (I know some suppliers recommend a 16A supply). While I'm doing this I can put in whatever sockets/connectors I need :)

Thanks,

Paul.
 

Steve

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Hi Paul,
Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but a 13amp supply won't be much use to you. As i understand it, you should make your ring main 40amps so that you can run, say, an extractor (say 13amps), a dust filter (say 8amps) and a machine (13amps) together withought worrying. When they say a 16 amp supply, they mean from that particular socket, not the main - eg that machine can suck its 16amps from the ring, which should have a higher capacity.
I believe its the combined load that counts, not the amperage of an individual machine. If you are having a ring, you probably wouldn't need a second ring. A separate lighting circuit is a good idea.
On the other hand, if I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick - kindly ignore the above.
I'm not a sparks - so anything I advise on electrics should be checked. Come to that, anything I advise on anything should be checked!
Steve
 
G

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All circuits should be fused, therefore the maximum loading for the circuit cannot exceed the fuse rating. As some machines need a high start up power the circuit must be rated to accept that initial surge.I had to have a separate circuit for my dust extractor for that very reason.But as a fuse is really a safety valve it is no good just putting in a massive ring main for tools which would burn out rather than blow the high amp fuse. I am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong.
 
A

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I'm not a qualified electrician but do have a (fairly old) degree in Electrical Enginieering so here's my two bits worth.

Steve is right. It's the combine amperage that's important.

Tools that come with a 13amp plug can safely go into a main ring that has a 32amp or 40 amp circuit breaker in the main fuse box. This is ok. If there is a fault with a particular tool, it will likely blow the 13amp fuse in the plug before it trips the 40amp breaker in the fusebox.

Some bigger machinery recommend a 16amp circuit and so you can't use a 13amp plug. For example, I've just bought a dust extractor that draws around 15amps on startup and so have to use an IP44 plug/socket. But the IP44 doesn't have a fuse and so it needs to be wired directly into the fuse box with its own DEDICATED 16amp circuit breaker. In this situation, you really shouldn't connect more than one device into a single circuit breaker.

If you have a lot of gear that uses 13amp plugs and you use them simultaneously, then I'd recommend maybe a couple of 32amp circuits.

And yes... keep a separate circuit for lighting.

If you have plans for bigger machinery and more machinery at a later date (and who doesn't), make sure you buy a fuse box that has room for expansion.

Finally, I'd recommend using circuit breakers that will trip if there is earth leakage (RCD's?). It costs a bit more but is much safer.
 

Digizz

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Ah thanks Guys.

Yes - there was a little confusion.

I'm planning a standard 13A socket ring main with 2.5mm2 T+E and 32/40A MCB - this is for standard bit n bobs, battery chargers, TV! (so I can watch norm!) etc.

I'm also planning a separate dedicated supply to the saw table, T/P, dust extract, pillar drill etc. This is the bit I'm not sure about - I thought I might just wire in a higher amperage ring main for this but as Edwardh mentions - it should go back to dedicated MCB's. Is this the case even if I spec a much higher ring main and MCB???
 

DaveL

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Digizz":3o7bkxdj said:
I'm also planning a separate dedicated supply to the saw table, T/P, dust extract, pillar drill etc. This is the bit I'm not sure about - I thought I might just wire in a higher amperage ring main for this but as Edwardh mentions - it should go back to dedicated MCB's. Is this the case even if I spec a much higher ring main and MCB???
If you are using outlets where there is not a fuse in each plug, ie 16A then you should not wire these on a ring main, unless you fit a fuse inline with each outlet.
The fuse in the plug is there to protect the lead as well as the equipment, if you have a 40A MCB on the board and the machine draws 30A what will trip / blow ?
You should wire the 16A outlets as radials, each one should have its own wire back to the board with its own MCB rated at 16A, everything is then properly protected.

Before anyone asks no I am not a sparks, :shock: but dad was a time served one until retirement and my eldest son works for an electrical contractor, currently studying for his 16th regs. :D
 

DaveL

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OK, so you just stepped over the edge of my information :!:

I have asked Joe about this. There appears to different types of 16A MCB. B is what would be used for 'normal' circuits in a house.
C and D are used for loads that draw a high startup current, he will look up the ratings, update to follow :p
 

Signal

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Just to chuck another variable in some machinery is rated at 20 AMPS for start up load.

Check the specs of your machinery and it should tell you what supply is required.

Out of all our kit, 2*TS, Bandsaw, Thicknesser, planer, drill press, morticser and dust ex its only the dust ex which requires a 20A radial. All the rest work happily off a 13A Ring.

You should also check that you have the correct fuse in the plug for the machine/power tool. Sticking a 13A fuse in a piece of equipment which only requires a 5A ain't gonna do any one any favours if something goes pop!

As for lighting, yup separate ring for lighting is definitely the way to go as you will still have lighting if the 13A ring fails.

However its also worth while having one light hanging of the 13A supply via a plug. This will ensure you have light if your lighting circuit goes.

Nothing worse than being plunged in to darkness cos of a lighting fault just as you start pushing that lump of oak through a machine DAMHIKT.

Cheers

Signal
 
A

Anonymous

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Be extremely careful with electrickery. You can't see, smell or hear it. (Unless you get it wrong)
Standard appliances; drill, router, battery charger, TV - Ring circuit, wired with 2.5mm 6242Y (Twin & Earth)
20A start current sounds high, but will reduce as machine reaches normal working state. This may increase again as machine is put under stress. Wire each heavier machine with it's own radial circuit, again 2.5mm 6242Y protected by 16A MCB.
For full safety, protect all except lighting with RCD. This way if something trips the RCD, your lights still work. Buy a split-load consumer unit from screw-fix for this.

Total safety; nip down your local, offer the assembled off-duty sparkies some extra beer money to have it done professionally
 

Adam

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Just to provide some figures for you Digizz, I run a Scheppach TS2500 - so the next saw up the range from that which you are discussing - it recommends a 20amp supply - and comes with a IP44 connector. However, I did some measurements at it doesn't draw even 13 amps at switch on (OK, my equipment can't catch the absolute peak but it doesn't blow the fuse or the fuse at the dedicated MCB either - wehich are 13amps and 20amps respectivly) - it runs at about 10 amps normally. I reckon you could easily assume your saw will not draw even 10 amps at switch on, and steady state under normal load it'll be 6-8 amps. (based on my measurements). I ended up plugging my TS2500 in using a normal plug with a 13 amp fuse - and it's not had any problems so far whatseover - even when cutting oak 2 inch thick - a pretty good test. I do run it on it[s own circuit - 20 amps - which by chance also has a sheppach dust extractor on it. This also comes with a IP44 connector - and a rating of 10amps + at start on - but I found it only draws 4 at start up and 3 steady state. I do switch them on seperatly though!

I suspect Scheppach are seriously overrating their equipment both in terms of startup current and supply required.#

Adam
 

Digizz

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Thanks Guys,

That's useful info.

I now have a comprehensively designed leccy plan - MCB's, RCD, separate supplies for all the big kit etc.
 

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