Wiring vacuum pump. Colour confusion?

[flanajb]

Hi,

I purchased an oil filled vac pump, but am confused by the colouring of the wires in the wiring box. Hoping someone might be able to help. Have been told the motor is single phase. Picture below.

Thanks

 

[Eric The Viking]

We would love to help. But the picture tells us practically nothing. Where do the wires go to?

I would assume to the mains, to the motor, and to some sort of pressure- or simple on/off-switch.

What wire colours are there, and how do they appear to be connected?

If you can say what you think goes to what and what is connected to what through that block (at least at the present), that would help a lot.

And how old is it, roughly?

 

[Eric The Viking]

I also think I can see scrape marks on the spades of the three terminals nearest to the camera. Was there an incoming mains cable connected there, or something else that's been removed? Or is it my imagination?

Also do you have any sort of test meter at your disposal - doesn't have to do mre than test continuity (a resistance range or a beeper)?

 

[flanajb]

Hi Eric, the wires go to the motor. Just confused why there are 6 of them.

There is no on / off switch, just a the white junction box sitting on top of the motor.

No idea how old the motor is. I purchased off ebay. Seller sells refurbished oil vane vac pumps.

I think this might be one for an electrician as I am rather lost. Why is nothing ever simple (when you buy off ebay)

 

[flanajb]

I also think I can see scrape marks on the spades of the three terminals nearest to the camera. Was there an incoming mains cable connected there, or something else that's been removed? Or is it my imagination?

Also do you have any sort of test meter at your disposal - doesn't have to do mre than test continuity (a resistance range or a beeper)?

Yes. There are scrape marks on the 3 spade connections, and this is where the incoming mains cable is connected. No test continuity tester to hand so a bit stuck. The motor is made in france, so not sure whether that explains the different colours.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Trying to be helpful, but I can't see what you can see!

one picture doesn't hack it, sadly.

Have a go at answering my questions and I'll have a go at answering yours

 

[flanajb]

Trying to be helpful, but I can't see what you can see!

one picture doesn't hack it, sadly.

Have a go at answering my questions and I'll have a go at answering yours

Sorry. I don't mean to come across as being awkward. In all honesty, it wouldn't matter if I was looking at just the photograph as I'd be none the wiser!

All I can say / see is as follows

1. There are 6 different coloured wires in the box on the top of the motor. All of which go into the motor
2. 3 of the wires in the box have spade connections which at some point have had spade connections attached to them
3. No idea how old the motor is
4. The box on top of the motor does have an entry for what is the mains feed.

Apart from that, I am afraid I cannot provide any further details.

Thanks

 

[CHJ]

Don't want to add to your confusion but are you sure that it is a single phase motor.

I say this because the six terminal block and the links fitted in that configuration relate to Star connection and is what one would expect in a three phase motor wired for 415 volt operation.

Is there a motor detail plate on the side of the motor.

It could be that a 'standard' block has been used on a single phase motor but the beggars the question what are the links doing?


See Bob Minchin's excellent document Page 10 and 11 most relevant.

Some colours you might expect to find dependant upon where the motor was made are shown Here Scroll down.

 

[flanajb]

I'll get my coat!!

Just heard back from ebay seller. It's bloody 3 phase :-(

Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

I got confused as the seller never posted whether it was 3 phase or single phase and the picture on the motor lists the following.

I wrongly assumed that as it has 220/240v stamped that it was 240v

 

[porker]

It looks like it can be changed from star to delta by moving the links. You may be able to power this with an inverter of 230v single phase.

 

[flanajb]

You may be able to power this with an inverter of 230v single phase.

That sounds like I need to shell out more cash?

 

[IHc1vtr+]

If i have read it right, you don't need an inverter. Just configure the poles to single phase low voltage as shown. Fig 6 on page 10.

Also needed is a starter/nvr switch.

 

[CHJ]

If i have read it right, you don't need an inverter. Just configure the poles to single phase low voltage as shown. Fig 6 on page 10.

Also needed is a starter/nvr switch.

Not So, this is a 3 phase motor, any attempt to wire it as a single phase device without using carefully configured additional components to simulate a 3rd shifted phase will probably burn out the wiring.


Also if it is decided to run it from a single to three phase invertor then make sure it is set for 50Hz (invertors can have their operating frequency set over quite a wide range)

 

[flanajb]

If i have read it right, you don't need an inverter. Just configure the poles to single phase low voltage as shown. Fig 6 on page 10.

Also needed is a starter/nvr switch.

Ok. I have read the document and it would appear that the motor on the pump can be run in singles phase.

The plate on the motor indicates it can. Is there a way of being 100% sure?

Thanks

 

[porker]

+1 CHJ - that is a 3 phase motor and needs some sort of converter to run it from a single phase 230V supply. The picture of the motor plate confirms this but the wiring for the phases in your first post are standard 3 phase colours. You can sometimes bodge something together with a suitable capacitor to phase shift a second phase but it's seldom satisfactory. You can use static converters or a VFD. (The term inverter is often used for these type of converters but technically it is not).

 

[CHJ]

Ok. I have read the document and it would appear that the motor on the pump can be run in singles phase.

The plate on the motor indicates it can. Is there a way of being 100% sure?

Thanks

The plate on the motor only shows that it can be configured for Low (230V) and High (415v) Three Phase Connections.

It can not be run on single phase without addition equipment.

The document describes the needs, read chapter 3 (page19 onwards)

 

[flanajb]

Thanks Chaps. Really appreciate you taking the time helping explain this.

Thanks


Justin

 

[flanajb]

Ok. Sorry to rekindle this, but I have heard back from the ebay seller who sold me the pump. He says I can run the motor using 240v by doing the following.

Just wonder what others think?

"The main capacitor is 30 mkf and the start > 60 mkf . Principle: when you turn on the power, pump want to run, but can't, because low power , then you push start switch for a few second and it accelerates to normal rotation speed and you realize start switch and it works, works, works...
Above 60 mkf capacitors are very large, so better to use bipolar capacitors with no less voltage like 240V"

 

[ColeyS1]

While I can't offer any help with wiring, I must say I'm finding it a fascinating read ! Hopefully with a little more digging you'll find out for sure good luck with the investigating

 

[CHJ]

You can use capacitors to create a simulated phase shift to get a 3 phase motor running, whether it will provide adequate torque to drive attached pumps or machinery is a matter for individual setups. It will not provide the same power as true three phase supply.

This is in effect what cheaper single phase motors with start/run capacitors are doing to start and provide some additional torque to keep running, and the ones with greater start up loads do so by having both start and run capacitors.

For optimum power provided to match individual motor, selection of capacitors is desirable.

Word of Caution, best err on the side of 380/400 volt working for capacitors, make sure they are AC rated (not DC electrolytic), ones with a max working of 240 volt may be subjected to spikes way above this in use.