Wire edge removal

[David C]

Ali,

What do you glue your shim with please?

Do you not find that it interferes with the bedding of the blade in a bevel up plane, and the fit of the chipbreaker in bevel down plane?

David

 

[ali27]

Ali,

What do you glue your shim with please?

Do you not find that it interferes with the bedding of the blade in a bevel up plane, and the fit of the chipbreaker in bevel down plane?

David

Hi sir. I can't comment on the BU plane as I have never used one, but
I think your concern is correct BU planes.

I have a qiangsheng chipbreaker and it did not interfere. I also have
a clifton chipbreaker but haven't tried it on that one yet. Ok I just did
and it does interfere with the clifton chip breaker. Not sure if it would
affect performance as I was able to tightly screw the chipbreaker to the
plane iron. No movement. I don't like the Clifton chipbreaker The front piece
has a tendency to fall of and does not provide support at the cutting edge.

The qiangsheng, hock and lie nielsen chip breakers which are similar in design
AFAIK should have no problems with this shim trick as the gap between the chip
breaker and the plane iron where the shim is located is bigger than the shim. I
can't find my standard stanley chip breaker at the moment, but that one should
be ok too.

Took my feeler gauges to measure the gap at the location of the shim. There is
a gap of 0.3mm, 12thou I think that is. The shim I used is 0.15mm, 6 thou. I
checked holding the plane iron in fron of bright light and there was clear light
between the shim, a 0.1 feeler gauge slides easily between the gap. So no
interference here. Even if there were, you could remove a bit of metal from
the chip breaker to create that space.

I have placed the shim 3.5cm-4.5cm from the cutting edge, the shim is 1cm wide.
I do think this will not work for BU planes. The shim would raise the front of the blade
a bit, something like this I guess.

bigger picture:
http://i41.tinypic.com/23tffdc.jpg

It might decrease peformance.

I used gorilla glue. Just everything amateuristic.

Ali

 

[Jacob]

Can I suggest that you two need to prioritise escaping from this obsession with crack pot solutions to non existent problems?
Start by asking yourselves how it is possible that millions of woodworkers have managed to remove wire edges previously, without feeler gauges glued on, or "ruler control .. achieved by slurry management"?

 

[Benchwayze]

I suppose there is always progress Jacob, but there is one thing that puzzles me.

If, as stated, the ruler-trick isn't used on a chisel, surely we wouldn't use it on a 'bevel-up' bade? After all, a plane is nothing more than a jig to hold a chisel, especially so in the case of a bevel-up plane-iron. :?
Just a thought.

 

[GazPal]

Can I suggest that you two need to prioritise escaping from this obsession with crack pot solutions to non existent problems?
Start by asking yourselves how it is possible that millions of woodworkers have managed to remove wire edges previously, without feeler gauges glued on, or "ruler control .. achieved by slurry management"?

Hence my earlier mentioning the fact it simply takes practise to hone and de-bur irons/blades.

Flattening and refining faces (Backs for those americunised among us) on blades shouldn't be a big deal and not take long (This includes older laminated blades) to achieve using a suitably course stone or diamond plate. A single sharpening session should see decent results without any need to resort to exotic methods and such results can only improve with each visit to sharpening/honing - regardless of whether freehand or guided. The process needn't be as involved an issue as seems to be implied by those advocating snake oil remedies. Simply invest in a good old style woodworking book and it'll tend to contain all you need to know regarding sharpening methods, but there's no better means of learning than practising sharpening whilst familiarising yourself with the tools involved.

Invest in a decent India combination oil stone - plus pot of 3 in 1 oil - and you're half way there already. One you've gained a little practise/experience you can add whatever you feel is needed into the mix, but the more complex it becomes, the longer the sharpening process will take and time spent woodworking is lessened.

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither are sharpening skills, but you should be capable of achieving good results within a very short space of time. Simply focus upon sharpening the tool/tools you're using and add to the mix as and when the need arises. This includes means of manipulating the finishing of exotically grained timbers via varying bevel pitch, etc..

 

[Jacob]

Absolutely!
Part of the problem with craft techniques in general is that although they can be seen to be being done well, it's often not that easy to explain how.
Hence the fall back onto methods which can be explained. A good place to start for a beginner perhaps, but with practice things get done differently.
Eventually even honing jigs, like stabilisers on bikes, get left behind!

 

[David C]

John,
A bench chisel cut is jigged and guided by its flat back. My ruler trick puts a very shallow, narrow bevel 1 to 1.5 mm) on the back of a plane blade. This does not interfere with blade bedding at all.

Jacob,
I am sorry you are so easily confused. My ruler trick is quick and simple. It has produced outstanding results for hundreds if not thousands of woodworkers world wide.

Your persistent attempts to ridicule it do you no credit.

David Charlesworth

 

[GazPal]

Exactly Jacob. I've an India combi oil stone that's seen almost constant use for over 40yrs and it was the best few pounds investment made during my apprenticeship. I've bought and used various other types of stones over the years, but the India has proven the one constant in the equation that's never let me down while preventing me from obsessing over sharpening.

Four recommendations for newcomers:

1. Find a good teacher/mentor whenever possible. Local colleges normally run woodworking courses which can help kick start sound skills aquisition and local craftsmen are often more than willing to share information if asked. You never know until you've asked and shy bairns get no broth.

2. Invest in a grinder and learn to grind primary bevels, as well as covering remedial work on damaged blade edges/faces and forming radial edges. Tormec devices are nice to have, but aren't necessary to achieve excellent results, as ye olde worlde hand crank grinders can be just as useful.

3. Learn to whet/hone blades using whichever method you find achieves the desired results, but don't be afraid to freehand hone edges. As long as angles are within the ball park you'll find the blade will do it's job and be perfectly capable of doing the job well.

4. Keep costs to a minimum. Less money spent on tooling equals more money for timber, hardware and woodworking education, with the knock-on effect of improving skill sets instead of emptying wallets and bank accounts.

 

[Jacob]

John,
A bench chisel cut is jigged and guided by its flat back. My ruler trick puts a very shallow, narrow bevel 1 to 1.5 mm) on the back of a plane blade. This does not interfere with blade bedding at all.

Jacob,
I am sorry you are so easily confused. My ruler trick is quick and simple. It has produced outstanding results for hundreds if not thousands of woodworkers world wide.

Your persistent attempts to ridicule it do you no credit.

David Charlesworth

Yebbut the without a ruler trick has produced outstanding results for millions of woodworkers world wide.
How can this be?
Anyway what's credit got to do with it? This isn't holy writ you know! The miracle of the ruler? :lol:

There are persistent attempts to ridicule my comments about convex bevel sharpening but I don't get upset about it. It's called discussion, debate etc.

They are all ****s anyway!

 

[GazPal]

John,
A bench chisel cut is jigged and guided by its flat back. My ruler trick puts a very shallow, narrow bevel 1 to 1.5 mm) on the back of a plane blade. This does not interfere with blade bedding at all.

Jacob,
I am sorry you are so easily confused. My ruler trick is quick and simple. It has produced outstanding results for hundreds if not thousands of woodworkers world wide.

Your persistent attempts to ridicule it do you no credit.

David Charlesworth

The ruler trick is an old standby techinique that's been in use for god only knows how long, but long pre-dates your publicising it and bringing it to the fore. It's a good simple technique to use when dealing with gnarly grain and improving cutting angle, or as a means of quickly bringing a rounded tool edge back into service when time is short, but should - I feel - be kept in reserve for when needed and not be force fed as "the" method to use constantly.

 

[Jacob]

Exactly Jacob. I've an India combi oil stone that's seen almost constant use for over 40yrs and it was the best few pounds investment made during my apprenticeship. I've bought and used various other types of stones over the years, but the India has proven the one constant in the equation that's never let me down while preventing me from obsessing over sharpening.

.........

Ditto. Actually exactly 40 years, almost to the day I notice. :shock:
I've looked at alternatives (got a drawer full of them) but the only serious add-on has been another old synthetic stone (no brand £2 ebay) which is much finer, for use when needed. Plus a Diapad for freshening up (the stones that is, not personal hygiene or anything).

 

[GazPal]

Exactly Jacob. I've an India combi oil stone that's seen almost constant use for over 40yrs and it was the best few pounds investment made during my apprenticeship. I've bought and used various other types of stones over the years, but the India has proven the one constant in the equation that's never let me down while preventing me from obsessing over sharpening.

.........

Ditto. Actually exactly 40 years, almost to the day I notice. :shock:
I've looked at alternatives (got a drawer full of them) but the only serious add-on has been another old synthetic stone (no brand £2 ebay) which is much finer, for use when needed. Plus a Diapad for freshening up (the stones that is, not personal hygiene or anything).

Same here, as I've a few natural whetting stones I like to use every now and then, plus a couple of dmt diamond plates, but still find myself gravitating to ye olde worlde India (I've a couple in separate tool boxes) for quick blade touch-up's when working. I've never tried those Diapad (Worrying name choice), but might check them out sometime, although I'm quite fond of sponge sanding blocks when cleaning things up a little during down time.

 

[Jacob]

I only use Diapads cos I've got them, bought for another job - cleaning up a Derbyshire marble fire place. They are good, don't wear out, but expensive. No doubt other things will do the trick just as well.

Very cheap here. Counterfeit?
They are good for glass edges too.

 

[GazPal]

I only use Diapads cos I've got them, bought for another job - cleaning up a Derbyshire marble fire place. They are good, don't wear out, but expensive. No doubt other things will do the trick just as well.

Very cheap here. Counterfeit?
They are good for glass edges too.

I think my son has some diapad stashed among his kit, so I'll plot a raid, but the ones you linked to seem to be the real thing and I think - at that price - I'll give them a go. There are some pretty good deals to be had on evilbay if you're cautious and limit bidding levels, but it's been a while since my last foray due to the threat of a 50yr grounding via SWMBO after the postie mentioned my "regular" deliveries as she signed for a supposed one-off item at the door.

My dad (A stonemason) used to swear by using meths and extra fine grades of wet & dry for marble clean-up's. Just be sure to soak the wet & dry overnight and it'll tend not to tear during use, as well as rinse out more readily and remain re-usable. :wink:

At the end of the day, the price is worth paying if something does the job well.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

2. Invest in a grinder and learn to grind primary bevels, as well as covering remedial work on damaged blade edges/faces and forming radial edges. Tormec devices are nice to have, but aren't necessary to achieve excellent results, as ye olde worlde hand crank grinders can be just as useful.

+1 for hand crank grinders. I have one inherited from Grandpa, and it's a very simple way to restore an over-honed edge. Can set it up pretty much anywhere, as well. No need to be near a power socket.

If anybody hunts one down, try and get one that takes a 6" wheel. Grandpa's takes 4", and whilst it's OK-ish, it's a bit egg-shaped. I've been half-heartedly trying to find a replacement, but 4" grinding wheels seem rarer than rocking-horse droppings.

 

[GazPal]

2. Invest in a grinder and learn to grind primary bevels, as well as covering remedial work on damaged blade edges/faces and forming radial edges. Tormec devices are nice to have, but aren't necessary to achieve excellent results, as ye olde worlde hand crank grinders can be just as useful.

+1 for hand crank grinders. I have one inherited from Grandpa, and it's a very simple way to restore an over-honed edge. Can set it up pretty much anywhere, as well. No need to be near a power socket.

If anybody hunts one down, try and get one that takes a 6" wheel. Grandpa's takes 4", and whilst it's OK-ish, it's a bit egg-shaped. I've been half-heartedly trying to find a replacement, but 4" grinding wheels seem rarer than rocking-horse droppings.

My dad used to un-hitch the cranking handle and set his manual grinder up with it chucked into an electric drill, but set to it's lowest speed setting for the sake of an element of safety. This was primarily because he was sharpening his masonry chisels and they tend to be a wee bit too heavy for one handed grinding, but never minded using it before eventually moving on to buy an electric grinder.

Can't say I've seen any 4" grind wheels for a good while now, but will keep my eyes peeled for one if you need one.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Can't say I've seen any 4" grind wheels for a good while now, but will keep my eyes peeled for one if you need one.

Thanks, Gaz. If you do find a source of supply, I'd be surprised to be honest.

I did manage to track one down to a firm in the West Midlands who supply wheels for engineer's surface grinders and the like. Their range was bewildering. I haven't followed it up because the job isn't really top of the priority list at the moment, just a sort of 'would be nice' job, if you know what I mean.

 

[GazPal]

Can't say I've seen any 4" grind wheels for a good while now, but will keep my eyes peeled for one if you need one.

Thanks, Gaz. If you do find a source of supply, I'd be surprised to be honest.

I did manage to track one down to a firm in the West Midlands who supply wheels for engineer's surface grinders and the like. Their range was bewildering. I haven't followed it up because the job isn't really top of the priority list at the moment, just a sort of 'would be nice' job, if you know what I mean.

No probs. You can also test drive a few stonemasonry supply resources, as they tend to use smaller diameter grinding wheels for stock and tool prep. :wink:

 

[cutting42]

I think Jacob and Gaz should get a room somewhere

 

[GazPal]

I think Jacob and Gaz should get a room somewhere

Surely you mean workshop :lol: