Wire edge removal

[ali27]

What have I said? :shock:

Doing the ruler trick without a ruler! That is like cursing
in a church :lol:

It has actually been some time that I found a solution for this,
hope Mr David C won'ttoo angry with me. I am going to call it the Ali trick,
damn I am such a narcist!

 

[matthewwh]

As David is still technically convalescing I'll save him the trouble.

The definition of a sharp edge is the line of intersection between two polished surfaces. One of the significant determinants of how good that edge will be is the quality of the polish on both surfaces. If one surface is poor, any effort expended beyond making the other one equally smooth will be wasted.

With care and good technique it is possible to avail yourself of two very small polished surfaces that include the cutting edge and require minimal effort to create and maintain to a very high standard. A secondary bevel takes seconds to polish because of its small surface area and it is therefore possible to polish out all of the scratch pattern from the previous grit in a few strokes. The same principle can be applied to the back of the tool using either the ruler trick for plane irons or or hollow ground backs for chisels (in the English sense, not the Japanese sense). Polishing the entire back of any blade is a complete waste of effort - large areas are impossible to maintain to a reasonable standard.

In principle Jacob's synopsis of the ruler trick is accurate, albeit on a rather more agricultural scale. Although the back of a blade may not be pitted it will still have scratches in it, and by reducing the area that needs to be polished you can use finer abrasives effectively and get better results with less effort. The point of the ruler is that it makes it easy for people who have never done it before to achieve the correct result - a back bevel so shallow that it is not significant in terms of plane geometry but is enough to ensure that you polish through the edge. You can also achieve the same result by setting the plane iron a few thou concave by putting the pointed end in a vice and carefully hitting the top with a mallet.

I take Jacob's point that in many forms of woodwork chiselled surfaces are not seen, and for general carpentry and joinery in softwoods and European hardwoods you may well be able to get away with tools that are not prepared to the same standard. However, it's not just about the quality of the surface left behind - very sharp tools are noticeably easier to push and therefore easier to control, they will also allow you to work on exotic timbers with relative ease. Planed surfaces definitely are seen on the finished piece.

 

[David C]

Dear Jacob,

The ruler trick which I teach, as a regular sharpening technique, creates a very small back bevel on a plane blade.
The point of the ruler is so that the angle (approximately 2/3rds of a degree) may be kept consistent and not interfere with cap iron fit.
I give cap irons about 1.5 to 2 degrees clearance.

The polishing of a small band at the edge is much more efficient than the large areas of yore. (Polish= the effect of a fine stone)

The method is recommended for Japanese water stones. You recently wrote something like "What's this slurry thing? Am I missing something? I doubt it somehow". So I doubt you will be trying my method anytime soon.

David Charlesworth

 

[Jacob]

........ However, it's not just about the quality of the surface left behind - very sharp tools are noticeably easier to push and therefore easier to control,

But they take longer to sharpen and lose their edge quicker. It's all about striking a happy medium

they will also allow you to work on exotic timbers with relative ease. Planed surfaces definitely are seen on the finished piece.

Special circumstances may need a different approach of course but I wonder how many of our polishers ever get close to some of these exotic and difficult timbers, with their immaculate sets of highly polished nearly new tools!

I guess "slurry" is what you get with soft stones and hard metal. With hard stones you get iron filings instead, as a grey/black slurry, which shows that you are removing metal. Actually I get stone slurry when I freshen up a stone with a Diapad - the diamonds being harder than the stone.

 

[Jacob]

What have I said? :shock:

Doing the ruler trick without a ruler! That is like cursing
in a church :lol:

and you get tolled off by the vicar! (old bell ringer joke :roll: )

It has actually been some time that I found a solution for this,
hope Mr David C won'ttoo angry with me. I am going to call it the Ali trick,
damn I am such a narcist!

Are you going to reveal all? I can't wait!
The Grimsdale trick is to exert slightly more pressure at the cutting end of a plane blade when flattening or removing the wire edge. Eventually this effectively produces a very fine bevel, about 0.05º roughly, more or less approximately, probably.

Striking a happy medium:

Sorry it's the only one I could find.

 

[ali27]

What have I said? :shock:

Doing the ruler trick without a ruler! That is like cursing
in a church :lol:

and you get tolled off by the vicar! (old bell ringer joke :roll: )

It has actually been some time that I found a solution for this,
hope Mr David C won'ttoo angry with me. I am going to call it the Ali trick,
damn I am such a narcist!

Are you going to reveal all? I can't wait!
The Grimsdale trick is to exert slightly more pressure at the cutting end of a plane blade when flattening or removing the wire edge. Eventually this effectively produces a very fine bevel, about 0.05º roughly, more or less approximately, probably.

Striking a happy medium:

Sorry it's the only one I could find.

Every time I used the ruler trick, I found it annoying as
in reducing the pleasure in sharpening. So I thought wat is
this ruler doing? It is only slighlty raising the iron so you get
a tiny backbevel. Next question was, how do I get a permanent
lift at the back. Answer is use a thin piece of metal glued to the
back. I used a feeler gauge. The feeler gauge is very soft metal
unfortunately and wears much faster than the plane iron.

This is how it looks.

I used a very thin feeler gauge, would have been better to use
a thicker one, so you only need to polish very little area.

I call it the Ali trick, lol

Ali

 

[Fiddler]

I was taught to strop the wire edge off my knives on the back of a leather belt, maybe this will work for chisels too!

 

[David C]

Ali,

That is ingenious, but as you say, your shim will wear quickly.

Ruler control is achieved by slurry management. Not too wet, not too dry, not too much and a tolerable stiction follows. The Nagura does the work of producing a little slurry. Excess water can be swept off with a finger.

I find it best if the surface of the ruler stays dry. (Rulers last many years).

Best wishes,
David

 

[Jacob]

I was taught to strop the wire edge off my knives on the back of a leather belt, maybe this will work for chisels too!

Nah, too easy!

The Ali trick is neat.
Even neater IMHO is to replace the shim (or the ruler) with a similar thickness of air i.e just lift the blade a tiny touch. Probably too easy and obvious though.

What is the most difficult way to sharpen a plane blade so far discovered? Has anybody tried it one handed in the dark, with a slice of toast instead of a stone?

Slurry management - isn't that something to do with farming?
It is! I thought so!

Interestin though innit? :roll:

 

[GazPal]

The simplest honing/whetting trick I found is freestyle (Beats backstroke, butterfly and side strokes) without guides, ruler tricks, etc., and simply involves slightly elevating the iron marginally beyond the grind angle before agitating the wick out of the cutting edge, lengthwise on the stone. This provides a working secondary bevel. Then simply lay the blade/iron with it's un-bevelled face down (Back down if americunised) and flat (Laterally) to the stone before agitating the wick out of the flat and removing the bur/wire edge using a little elbow grease. :wink:

Sometimes the simplest answers are practise, practise and practise.

 

[ali27]

Ali,

That is ingenious, but as you say, your shim will wear quickly.

Ruler control is achieved by slurry management. Not too wet, not too dry, not too much and a tolerable stiction follows. The Nagura does the work of producing a little slurry. Excess water can be swept off with a finger.

I find it best if the surface of the ruler stays dry. (Rulers last many years).

Best wishes,
David

Thank you sir. Yes as I said the shim will wear quicker. The solution is to just
use a shim that is about the same toughness of the plane iron.

This trick makes sharpening more enjoyable for me. Create the burr, flip the blade
and remove the burr without needing to use a ruler or polishing a big piece of the back.
It is probably even more accurate than a ruler, easier to, cost less time. Once you do
it this way, you will never go back to the ruler IMO.

Ali

 

[ali27]

I was taught to strop the wire edge off my knives on the back of a leather belt, maybe this will work for chisels too!

Nah, too easy!

The Ali trick is neat.
Even neater IMHO is to replace the shim (or the ruler) with a similar thickness of air i.e just lift the blade a tiny touch. Probably too easy and obvious though.

Jacob, this is probably the first time I can say that my technique/trick is easier
than yours :mrgreen: :lol: . I don't even need to lift the blade ''with a similar thickness of air''.
This trick will only take 15minutes the first time to glue the metal shim to the back
and polish a tiny backbevel. After that it is always quicker and easier than your method. It
is also more precise.

Ali

 

[Jacob]

I was taught to strop the wire edge off my knives on the back of a leather belt, maybe this will work for chisels too!

Nah, too easy!

The Ali trick is neat.
Even neater IMHO is to replace the shim (or the ruler) with a similar thickness of air i.e just lift the blade a tiny touch. Probably too easy and obvious though.

Jacob, this is probably the first time I can say that my technique/trick is easier
than yours :mrgreen: :lol: . I don't even need to lift the blade ''with a similar thickness of air''.
This trick will only take 15minutes the first time to glue the metal shim to the back
and polish a tiny backbevel. After that it is always quicker and easier than your method. It
is also more precise.

Ali

Well you stick with it then. Personally I'm not even going to try it (or a ruler), life is just too short!

These wheezes and wangles are solutions to imaginary problems. Tilting at windmills.

 

[woodbloke]

Personally I'm not even going to try it (or a ruler), life is just too short!

...difficult for Jacob to use a ruler as well, 'cos he doesn't use 'em :lol: - Rob

 

[Jacob]

Personally I'm not even going to try it (or a ruler), life is just too short!

...difficult for Jacob to use a ruler as well, 'cos he doesn't use 'em :lol: - Rob

Oh yes I do! Did you know that "ruler control is achieved by slurry management"?
I can't get this phrase out of my head, I keep saying it in a cod german accent with one arm raised.

Ruler control is achieved by slurry management. :shock: oops there it goes again!

 

[ali27]

Personally I'm not even going to try it (or a ruler), life is just too short!

...difficult for Jacob to use a ruler as well, 'cos he doesn't use 'em :lol: - Rob

Oh yes I do! Did you know that "ruler control is achieved by slurry management"?
I can't get this phrase out of my head, I keep saying it in a cod german accent with one arm raised.

Ruler control is achieved by slurry management. :shock: oops there it goes again!

I think what mr DC means there is that when you work on the stone
and get a bit of mud/slurry working, this will prevent the ruler from moving.

Jacob, the ali trick is easier and quicker than your Jacob air shim trick. Since
you are always about speed and easy, I expect you to use my trick. :mrgreen:
Your slightly lifting of the back and removing the burr will take at least 3 seconds
more every time you do it compared to the ''Ali trick''(sounds so nice). It will be
less precise as well.

Ali

 

[Jake]

Ali trick is a good adaption.

I forsee suitable titanium nitride and cryogenically treated powder steel shim stock strips on sale at an online shop near you very shortly, which will deal with the critical issue of angle maintenance over time. At a very reasonable price for the technologically advanced materials required for such mission critical sharpening apparatus.

 

[Jacob]

....
...difficult for Jacob to use a ruler as well, 'cos he doesn't use 'em :lol: - Rob

Oh yes I do! Did you know that "ruler control is achieved by slurry management"?
I can't get this phrase out of my head, I keep saying it in a cod german accent with one arm raised.

Ruler control is achieved by slurry management. :shock: oops there it goes again!

I think what mr DC means there is that when you work on the stone
and get a bit of mud/slurry working, this will prevent the ruler from moving.

Jacob, the ali trick is easier and quicker than your Jacob air shim trick. Since
you are always about speed and easy, I expect you to use my trick. :mrgreen:
Your slightly lifting of the back and removing the burr will take at least 3 seconds
more every time you do it compared to the ''Ali trick''(sounds so nice). It will be
less precise as well.

Ali

That's the Grimsdale MkII tactic. It doesn't take 3 seconds to lift the end of a chisel. I'll time it. At least I would, if I had an accurate enough stop watch. Precision is everything in this game. Ruler control is achieved by slurry management.
The Grimsdale MkI tactic is to keep the blade flat and merely to apply more pressure at the pointy end. This takes no time at all!
Or just get on with it and not think about it.

 

[Jacob]

Ali trick is a good adaption.

I forsee suitable titanium nitride and cryogenically treated powder steel shim stock strips on sale at an online shop near you very shortly, which will deal with the critical issue of angle maintenance over time. At a very reasonable price for the technologically advanced materials required for such mission critical sharpening apparatus.

I don't know about angular maintenance but I used to know a girl called Angela Mainwaring.

 

[ali27]

[/quote]That's the Grimsdale MkII tactic. It doesn't take 3 seconds to lift the end of a chisel. I'll time it. At least I would, if I had an accurate enough stop watch. Precision is everything in this game. Ruler control is achieved by slurry management.
The Grimsdale MkI tactic is to keep the blade flat and merely to apply more pressure at the pointy end. This takes no time at all!
Or just get on with it and not think about it.[/quote]

No matter what you say Jacob, the ''Ali trick''(going to repeat it as often as I can :lol: )
is faster, more accurate and easier. With your trick you need to think about slightly
raising the back, with the Ali trick you don't do any thinking. The metal shim will give
an accurate tiny backbevel each time, your trick is not as accurate. My trick beats
your trick. Your plane blades will all have the Ali trick backbevel shim on them
in the future. You will not be able to resist the ease, simplicity and speed of my
technique. Resistence is futile.

Ali