This question can be filed under the heading of "idle curiosity" as I am not intending to build a chair. I've read in several places that green wood is sometimes used for chairmaking. Presumably the potential for it to twist, bow etc. is taken into account, so my question is, why use green wood in the first place? Are there any advantages to doing this?
Why is green wood used in chairmaking?
- Thread starter Andy Kev.
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wrightwoodwork
Member
I've never done my understanding is that when the wood is in the green state the wood fibers are a lot more flexible and pliable and allow the wood to be bent and twisted without snapping
Those two replies make sense but is there no chance that as the wood dries out, it assumes shapes that you weren't expecting?
Spindle
Established Member
Hi
Wood shrinks much more across the grain than along it when drying, the result is spindles tend to move from round to elliptical, (oval), however it is difficult to see this effect so it doesn't matter when it happens. Spindles are also relatively short so any bow induced during drying is also pretty un-noticeable to the casual glance.
Regards Mick
Wood shrinks much more across the grain than along it when drying, the result is spindles tend to move from round to elliptical, (oval), however it is difficult to see this effect so it doesn't matter when it happens. Spindles are also relatively short so any bow induced during drying is also pretty un-noticeable to the casual glance.
Regards Mick
That makes sense. But what about the straight bits of the chairs? Are they made out of dry wood for the reasons you state - which I assume apply less to straight pieces?Spindle":3naz00wg said:
Spindle
Established Member
Hi
No - as I say, because most chair components are less than 18" in length the amount of bow is generally un-noticeable.
Chairs with square or rectangular components are not generally made from un / part seasoned wood.
Regards Mick
No - as I say, because most chair components are less than 18" in length the amount of bow is generally un-noticeable.
Chairs with square or rectangular components are not generally made from un / part seasoned wood.
Regards Mick
NickWelford
So many tools, so little to show
Stick chairs used to be made generally in the woods. The action of drying to an oval locks the spindles into the holes and negates the need for glue. Also, in the days before electricity, pole lathes were used. Try one - it's a damn sight easier to turn green wood on them!
bugbear
Established Member
Andy Kev.":28ei46jx said:
Yes, and the makers allow for that; the parts made green are left slightly oversize, and there's a subsequent light pass for accuracy when the pieces have dried.
BugBear
Green wood for chairmaking was part of a whole sustainable system of work, on a huge scale. Bear in mind that we're talking about "stick chairs" with slim round legs and woven seats, or "Windsor" chairs with stick legs fixed into holes in a shaped plank seat - a set of mortice and tenoned dining room chairs is a totally different proposition.
The components of a stick chair could be made from coppiced timber - using the thin, new growth of slender poles from the base of a cut-back tree. So there was no need to fell mature trees, just to manage the woods in a pattern of cutting back and harvesting. These slim poles needed no sawing. Thicker poles could be cleft - much quicker than sawing and producing parts of maximum strength, as the grain stays continuous through the whole length of each part.
The work of cutting and shaping could be done with a very few hand tools. (Green timber is much softer to work.) So much of it was done in the woods, where the trees grew - saving on transport. Seasoning was done, after initial shaping, and could be quite quick for the small sections used.
The design of a stick chair, with turned tenons fitting into bored holes, is very strong. As has been said, shrinkage can be exploited to make glueless joints that tighten over time. But the lightweight structure can also give a bit, to accommodate unevenness in the components, or a bumpy floor.
The components of a stick chair could be made from coppiced timber - using the thin, new growth of slender poles from the base of a cut-back tree. So there was no need to fell mature trees, just to manage the woods in a pattern of cutting back and harvesting. These slim poles needed no sawing. Thicker poles could be cleft - much quicker than sawing and producing parts of maximum strength, as the grain stays continuous through the whole length of each part.
The work of cutting and shaping could be done with a very few hand tools. (Green timber is much softer to work.) So much of it was done in the woods, where the trees grew - saving on transport. Seasoning was done, after initial shaping, and could be quite quick for the small sections used.
The design of a stick chair, with turned tenons fitting into bored holes, is very strong. As has been said, shrinkage can be exploited to make glueless joints that tighten over time. But the lightweight structure can also give a bit, to accommodate unevenness in the components, or a bumpy floor.
xy mosian
Established Member
There is an excellent description of the process here:- first-chair-t82109.html.
Sheffield Tony has done a really good job.
I believe that occasionally the old chair bodgers would have a chair where one leg bent excessivley, making the chair rock. This looked like a dog cocking its leg up. Sound familiar? The original 'Cock-up'
xy
Sheffield Tony has done a really good job.
I believe that occasionally the old chair bodgers would have a chair where one leg bent excessivley, making the chair rock. This looked like a dog cocking its leg up. Sound familiar? The original 'Cock-up'
xy
chipmunk
Established Member
As Andy says the main reason why the parts didn't warp is because they were riven from straight grained clear timber.
Most bodgers for windsor chairs worked in beech
http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/samuel-rockall-last-of-the-chair-bodgers/#more-18
You never see knots in stick chairs - knots make for a real so-and-so to turn on a pole lathe or shape with a draw knife ;-)
Jon
Most bodgers for windsor chairs worked in beech
http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/samuel-rockall-last-of-the-chair-bodgers/#more-18
You never see knots in stick chairs - knots make for a real so-and-so to turn on a pole lathe or shape with a draw knife ;-)
Jon
Thank you all very much for the replies. My question is well and truly answered! The two links lead to extremely interesting articles. Thanks again.
