Who has taken them!

[Richard_C]

This thread started with a fairly reasoned and well informed discussion about the shortage of HGV drivers, and has moved, via slagging off Corbyn, questioning the value of educating the police and various other diversions, to arrive at semi naked door answerers.

Time to be off, I think.

 

[Stevekane]

Its a wide ranging debate thats for sure,,so what about the notion of a “Universal Wage” the idea being that everyone just gets paid a living wage and if you want to work on top of that its just extra income. That way people who cannot find jobs, say the van and tractor drivers whos vehicles are now driverless can instead work within their communities, say doing an art class, or music or helping out at old peoples homes as p/t self employed. It all sounds very left wing and radical but Mark Carney, the prev bank of england boss said in a speech at the lord mayors dinner that it was something that we needed to consider. There might come a time when many of the jobs we now have will disapear,,,look at the retail sector as a for instance and it will be no good trying to badger people into jobs that do not exist by labeling them as “dole scroungers” Im clueless about economics but I suspect that as long as you properly tax the big companies like google and then give this money to people who just spend it you create an economy? and their contribution is enriching the comumunity where they live.
Steve.

 

[Spectric]

Well I'd just like to say in 1974 doing "Bob a job" aged 9 a bloke answered the door with his meat and 2 veg showing, as kids we thought it was hilarious as he'd obviously forgot to put it away after a wee

Does that not show how we were children, innocent and you thought nothing of it at the time, just a laugh. It was a different thought process back then, I could wander for miles in Hornchurch without worry rain or shine and it must be a healthier way rather than sitting indoors looking at screens.

 

[doctor Bob]

Does that not show how we were children, innocent and you thought nothing of it at the time, just a laugh. It was a different thought process back then, I could wander for miles in Hornchurch without worry rain or shine and it must be a healthier way rather than sitting indoors looking at screens.

Yes I suppose it does.

 

[Adam W.]

Does that not show how we were children, innocent and you thought nothing of it at the time, just a laugh. It was a different thought process back then, I could wander for miles in Hornchurch without worry rain or shine and it must be a healthier way rather than sitting indoors looking at screens.

Good grief!

I'm from Upminster.

 

[Spectric]

Good grief!

I'm from Upminster.

I was born in Stourway in Cranham and as a kid we shopped in Upminster as I still remember the little pond outside the doctors surgery!

 

[Adam W.]

I was born in Cranham and I'm sitting there right now at mums. I went to Ogelthorpe then Gaynes.

 

[John Brown]

Yes they do seem to be more fragile these days but then whose fault is it that they cannot have the freedom in childhood to roam and play outside like was once the norm due to the risk from weido's and all the other o's.

From what I've read, over the years, there are no more weirdos or perverts about now than there were 50 years ago.

 

[Spectric]

From what I've read, over the years, there are no more weirdos or perverts about now than there were 50 years ago.

Maybe not, but were they free to roam or kept under control. How many women were raped and cremated back then! I think the streets are not as safe as they were fifty years ago.

 

[Jameshow]

Its a wide ranging debate thats for sure,,so what about the notion of a “Universal Wage” the idea being that everyone just gets paid a living wage and if you want to work on top of that its just extra income. That way people who cannot find jobs, say the van and tractor drivers whos vehicles are now driverless can instead work within their communities, say doing an art class, or music or helping out at old peoples homes as p/t self employed. It all sounds very left wing and radical but Mark Carney, the prev bank of england boss said in a speech at the lord mayors dinner that it was something that we needed to consider. There might come a time when many of the jobs we now have will disapear,,,look at the retail sector as a for instance and it will be no good trying to badger people into jobs that do not exist by labeling them as “dole scroungers” Im clueless about economics but I suspect that as long as you properly tax the big companies like google and then give this money to people who just spend it you create an economy? and their contribution is enriching the comumunity where they live.
Steve.

No we just need jobs for average and below people.

Politicians don't get this they talk if a hi tech society which condemns 50% of the population (esp males) to a life of poverty and often joblessness. What we need is jobs for all strata of society rather than outsourcing our lower paid jobs to Poland, Slovakia or China.

As the owner of Ebac said his workforce aren't the brightest but they are hard workers.

Cheers James

 

[Spectric]

I was born in Cranham and I'm sitting there right now at mums.

Cranham in 61 to 65, then Hornchurch and Wykenham school. I bet I would not reconise anything around there now, and the M25 is nearby now as well.

 

[Jake]

Maybe not, but were they free to roam or kept under control. How many women were raped and cremated back then! I think the streets are not as safe as they were fifty years ago.

Crime has generally gone down, it is more reported.

 

[baldkev]

Maybe not, but were they free to roam or kept under control. How many women were raped and cremated back then! I think the streets are not as safe as they were fifty years ago.

As above, we now have the internet and fast media coverage. Back in the 60s the papers were probably once a week? ( im 40 so i don't know ) and the national papers wouldnt get all the stories from local papers etc, so it wasnt covered like it is today....

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Over the last four decades millions of jobs have gone - steel workers, coal miners, car workers, typists, switchboard operators, clerical assistants, general manufacturing etc etc.

There should now be 5-8m unemployed - offsetting these losses are new jobs in media, IT, logistics, marketing, financial services etc etc. Today, vacancies outnumber unemployed!

I am not commending complacency - it is a result of evolving technologies and society. For most the standard of living has materially improved. AI and further automation need not lead to unemployment but changed employment - both the nature of jobs and working hours.

The debate about minimum wage also seems somewhat futile, save that at a very basic level it avoids complete poverty and gross exploitation (a good outcome).

Wealth created in an economy is determined largely by government policy - tax, borrowing, investment, interest rates, competition law etc etc. The issue is how that wealth is shared.

Changing the way it is shared may increase or decrease the total wealth created. It may even be deemed reasonable to sacrifice some wealth in the interest of social fairness.

Increasing the minimum wage to the national average of £15ph will be either inflationary, or require a major re-allocation of wealth from the better off to the less well off.

It is a completely fatuous proposition requiring the reduction of those above average to the average. I am sure there are some to whom it seems socially responsible and fair - it would probably consign the proponents to permanant opposition and is most unlikely to happen

 

[Glitch]

Over 50.000 entry denial since June, on “return” is a “eviction” from my point of view.
How many foreigners were “returning” with no papers (visa or settlement) no one will know. Just pointing out that a thousands ion people, especially seasonal workers, were told “turn around” on French/UK border.

Not sure where your figures are from. 7,249 according to this article which raises more sinister issues: 0ver 60% of EU citizens stopped at border are Romanian

There was plenty of opportunity to apply for settled, or pre-settled status but bound to be some people who didn't bother or couldn't produce all the evidence required.

Seasonal workers more likely to have problems securing it though. You have to produce a lot of paperwork to prove you've been living in the U.K.
My FiL didn't even have a valid passport to prove who he is! You would think it would be easy for someone granted ILR in the early 60's, 4 years after arriving in the UK but you can see how the Windrush scandal came about.

There simply isn't a perfect way to do it. We have no idea who is in the country and whether they are here legally.

 

[GregW]

Not sure where your figures are from. 7,249 according to this article which raises more sinister issues: 0ver 60% of EU citizens stopped at border are Romanian

There was plenty of opportunity to apply for settled, or pre-settled status but bound to be some people who didn't bother or couldn't produce all the evidence required.

Seasonal workers more likely to have problems securing it though. You have to produce a lot of paperwork to prove you've been living in the U.K.
My FiL didn't even have a valid passport to prove who he is! You would think it would be easy for someone granted ILR in the early 60's, 4 years after arriving in the UK but you can see how the Windrush scandal came about.

There simply isn't a perfect way to do it. We have no idea who is in the country and whether they are here legally.

Border agency statistics. They not register nationality, so how The Guardian count it, no idea. Possibly the same way they counting miraculous jab success in millions non-infections

 

[Glitch]

I read a couple of years ago that Google and Uber were collaborating on developing Self Driving lorries, self driving cars are just round the corner, but lorries with all the driver issues, limits on hours ect is clearly somthing worth persueing. Google and Uber may have subsequently had a falling out (?) but given the present shenanigans you can bet that the development is continuing apace somewhere. I believe that farming is another area where super high tech is already having an impact and given the environment they operate in you would think its even easier to self drive a combine or a tractor.
Steve.

Automation is going to happen in virtually all areas of employment.
The technology in some areas is over-hyped - just look for the Dunning-Kruger curve for some of this stuff.

I got disillusioned in my final years working in Banking IT. There was a big push to automate manually intensive processes using technology. A lot of it didn't deliver the benefits for reasons that will be solved. As the service based economy there will be a huge reduction in jobs.

Automated cars, drones, farming automation, 3D printing, process automation, AI. Its all happening.

 

[GregW]

Automation is going to happen in virtually all areas of employment.
The technology in some areas is over-hyped - just look for the Dunning-Kruger curve for some of this stuff.

I got disillusioned in my final years working in Banking IT. There was a big push to automate manually intensive processes using technology. A lot of it didn't deliver the benefits for reasons that will be solved. As the service based economy there will be a huge reduction in jobs.

Automated cars, drones, farming automation, 3D printing, process automation, AI. Its all happening.

Which is not bad think at all, however re-education is needed for manual workers to be needed in society, to repair these production robots, which just replaced the humans.

Humans were put into factories due lack of machines and high product demand. Look how fast Amazon taking over eBay market, just by reselling goods from other shops on Amazon. That would not happened on local Wednesday market…

 

[Glitch]

Which is not bad think at all, however re-education is needed for manual workers to be needed in society, to repair these production robots, which just replaced the humans.

Humans were put into factories due lack of machines and high product demand. Look how fast Amazon taking over eBay market, just by reselling goods from other shops on Amazon. That would not happened on local Wednesday market…

I'd like to see the business case that replaces people with automation and all the redundant workforce get retrained to support the automation.

Same thinking that says automation will give us a lot more leisure time.

 

[GregW]

I'd like to see the business case that replaces people with automation and all the redundant workforce get retrained to support the automation.

Same thinking that says automation will give us a lot more leisure time.

Humans are made for work. We have skill that will never e replaced by any robot - aesthetics feel, craftsman and artisan creativity.

Btw : humans are curse of all automated processes failure. Not ever going to driving as human is a reason for almost every single accident. If AI would be allowed to run 100% on motorways, there will be 400% increase in communing flows… and that on current legal limits. AI + WiFi = no traffic jams etc