Which table saw?

[Anonymous]

john you must know a great deal about table saw fences (sic) the idea of fences not going further than half way accross the blade is to stop timber closing and pinching on the back of the blade which causes kick back. Old british machines, wadkin AGS, Robinson, Sedgwick etc only went half way they were designed for solid timber, chip board was not used much. Startrite was the exception, this had a full length fence faced halfway across with timber which could be removed, Modern fences usualy have an extrusion which can be full length or half length depending on the material to be cut and this is the standard for even the most expensive machines, perhaps Alterndorff and Martin have got it wrong.

 

[ProShop]

perhaps Alterndorff and Martin have got it wrong.

Felder must have it wrong also as they are nearly all full length fences.

Of all the saws I have ever used, as long as the riving knife is in place I never had this problem, and on some of the big Wilsons we used without a knife in it wasn't an issue, suppose that comes with experience.

I've ripped some large pieces with the Record and no problems with the full length fence locked at both ends makes for a very sturdy fence.

 

[frank]

as i said in my post the saws will take a dado to 13/16 or 18mm woodford sell the sets in a nice alu case at about £75 . and as for the fence just fit a peice of wood on it to go half way . i have not had any wood pinch at the back of the blade ,the riving knive stops that and my saw is a clarke 10" ,i have cut planks of !2ftx11/2" on it on my own as well as 8x4s and im talking 18mm faced mdf .

the salesman also said the saw blade stops within 10secs for the new regs my clarke seems to go on for ages .
drew the 850 sliding gear that i seen was nylon runners like on the wood rat the price was£516.55 with the vat .
thomas the saws are very well built but not to heavy the 8020 is 218 lbs or 96kilos .

hope this helps frank

 

[ike]

Maybe this is eggs an' all but....

What I was taught was a riving knife is essential for safety to minimise kickback, and I only take it off for grooving and rebating. However if when ripping the timber warps away from the cut, a full length fence can be restrictive and the timber forces against the blade/knife, causing it to bind. With a shorter, adjustable length fence you can set so it stops opposite the riving knife and almost always stops the binding.

So I think the ideal fence is a full length one that locks on a back rail but has a sliding cheek.

Ike

 

[johnelliott]

So I think the ideal fence is a full length one that locks on a back rail but has a sliding cheek.

I agree. This is the system used on my saw (EB PKF255)
John

 

[Anonymous]

John

All modern saws have a splitter behind the blade to prevent this. A long fence does not cause the problem you describe if the user has left the splitter in place

Agreed, a riving knife helps a lot. Total prevention is a bit optimistic though. The knife can't really be more than about 3mm thick, and will bend if enough pressure is put on it
John

John I have yet to see the piece of wood with enough stress in it to bend 3mm steel :wink:

 

[ike]

John I have yet to see the piece of wood with enough stress in it to bend 3mm steel

John, not wanting to hijack this but...

Tony,

I read Johns post as meaning to 'deflect' the riving knife. Obviously it won't 'bend' it (as in 'plastic deformation') :wink:

cheers

Ike

 

[Anonymous]

John I have yet to see the piece of wood with enough stress in it to bend 3mm steel

John, not wanting to hijack this but...

Tony,

I read Johns post as meaning to 'deflect' the riving knife. Obviously it won't 'bend' it (as in 'plastic deformation') :wink:

cheers

Ike

Ike OK. How about

I have yet to see the piece of wood with enough stress in it to deflect 3mm steel significantly - particularly a riving knife that is secured just under the table!!!


The point is that a full sized fence is not a problem when cutting any wood - I have owned 4 table saws over the last ten years and all of them had full size fences. No kickback or deflection of the riving knife has ever been experienced.

I do not believe that the length of the fence is an important consideration when purchasing a table saw

 

[johnelliott]

I have yet to see the piece of wood with enough stress in it to deflect 3mm steel significantly - particularly a riving knife that is secured just under the table!!!


The point is that a full sized fence is not a problem when cutting any wood - I have owned 4 table saws over the last ten years and all of them had full size fences. No kickback or deflection of the riving knife has ever been experienced.

I do not believe that the length of the fence is an important consideration when purchasing a table saw

3mm steel is fairly easy to deflect, especially when it is secured some distance below the table (at least as deep as the greatest depth of cut). It won't need to move very far to allow the wood to contact the back of the blade
The short fence is a safety feature, and, like many such features, is there to help in worst case scenarios, such as an unpractised operator trying to rip a 4" thick piece of air dried oak

John

 

[Midnight]

ummmmm....... Tony...

John's right bud...

I got a piece of 3"x1" elm that I wanted to rip down the centre... piece is around 3 ft I think... I got about 12" into the cut before it came flying back at me, and that's with the riving knife fitted. Prior to cutting, it was straight as a die.. grain looked real tame too; no sign of anything untoward...

I keep it just as a reminder; the forked end has opened from 1 kerf wide (2.6mm) to over 36mm in just 12"....

reaction wood.... gotta love it...

that said.... it's the only time I've been caught like that, though I've been close a couple of times...
Still stickin with my long fence though...

 

[thomaskennedy]

Arguing about fence lengths eh? :roll: :wink: :lol:

I would love one of those fences (like norms) which extends, but all the ones i have found are too big...

How about if i use a bit of 18mm plywood clamped to the long fence to act as a shorter fence? would this resolve the problem?

I think i need to have a look at the scheppach ts2000 in the flesh to see whether i would go for one, although it is such a hard decision when there is so much money to be spent? :roll:

Ta

Tom

 

[thomaskennedy]

I have just looked at the Xcaliber saws again,

i keep getting drawn to the 8930101 ( http://www.woodfordwm.co.uk/ )

It looks as if the extensions on the left fold up, and if my maths is correct, the total width of the saw is around 1m with the extensions up, surely not? :?

It can also take a dado blade such as this[url] one !

Any ideas about this saw

Ta

Tom

 

[Philly]

Thom
Looks like the Delta contractors saw, with sliding table attachment. I think Noel's got one of these (minus sliding table)?
Philly

 

[frank]

tom the extensions dont fold down ,and as for dado's as i said in my earlier post woodford sell them for about £75 . the table front to back is 685 mm side to side is 510 mm the gross weight is 264 lbs .

frank

 

[Midnight]

Tom...

with the sliding table set up, your dimensions are 2.26x0.91m. Another worry is the motor rating; at 1 1/2 HP it'll handle a 10" blade just fine, but I wouldn't try a dado with it. For that, you need a minimum of 3 HP...5 preferably to use it safely...

 

[thomaskennedy]

Mike-On the website it says that the saw can take a dado blade up to 8" and 20mm wide :?

Tis a shame about the sliding table not folding down, that would have been the saw for me then

Thanks for the info frank,

after all it would be too big for my WS

Ta

Tom

 

[thomaskennedy]

frank-i can't seem to find the dado's on that website :shock: Where abouts are they?

Ta

Tom

 

[Midnight]

Mike-On the website it says that the saw can take a dado blade up to 8" and 20mm wide

Yes it does..... but that doesn't mean the motor's rated to take a heavy cut in a dense hardwood; it's when the motor starts to struggle that nasty things happen in a hurry... these things have a mean reputation for a reason; gotta have the right set up to use em...

if it's any consolation, my shop's too damn small for a decent sized saw too...

 

[frank]

tom the guy in the shop showed me a set

frank

 

[thomaskennedy]

oh thats alright then frank

Midnight-Thanks for the advice I feel for ya about the workshop size its a bummer innit :roll:

Another question,

Is a fine fence adjuster, such as the one on the SIP cast iron model essential?

I was thinking, if i have never had a sliding carriage, then i won't miss one :wink:

Ta

Tom