Which shoulder plane?

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morfa

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I've been looking to buy a shoulder plane. However they're all rather expensive on ebay. I've not been good at finding cheap stuff on the bay of flea in the past, but I really don't think they're cheap at all.

So I was thinking of treating myself to a swanky one.

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Cli ... Plane.html

That seems like a good deal for a multipurpose plane. Anyone got one? Worth it? Any cheaper/better alternatives out there?
 
morfa":1x0hzjkm said:
Anyone got one? Worth it?

I have one. Excellent plane, beautifully made and very nice to use. Significantly better made than the (no longer available) Record version on which it is based.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 
Agree with everything Paul says (except the comparison with the Record - I've never had one to compare the Cliffie with, so can't offer comment). It's a lovely little tool. One advantage of buying a new one is that you get a couple of shims with which you alter the mouth width if you need to; you'd be very lucky to get those with a secondhand one. I've managed to accumulate four shoulder planes of various sizes, but if I could only keep one it would be the Clifton 3-in-1.

Yes, it's a bit of a financial stretch, but on the basis of a few really good tools being more useful than a shedfull of gadgets, it's worth it.

One small project I have on my 'to-do' list is to make a little wooden box for mine, to keep all the bits together, and protect it in the toolchest. It's still in it's original cardboard box at the moment (which at about 15 years old is doing pretty well) but that won't last as long as the plane will!
 
Veritas do a very good shoulder plane. The larger one is best but medium is also an excellent tool

TT
 
Cheshirechappie":14iih4kr said:
One advantage of buying a new one is that you get a couple of shims with which you alter the mouth width if you need to; you'd be very lucky to get those with a secondhand one.

My experience differs. I don't see many Record #77s or #311's, but all the ones I've seen still have their "nose" attached, and they've all had both shims present.

Unlike #78's, which I think are used on site as "plain" rebate/shoulder planes. I see those without fence/depth stop more often than with.

BugBear
 
Hello,

I have had the Veritas medium shoulder plane since the day it was introduced, I was in America at the time and pre ordered one before they were on general sale. I have to say it is absolutely great. A friend of mine got a Clifton 3 in 1 about the same time, and the castings were just not as crisp as they should have been for a tool of that price point. It might have been that he got a below par one, but that is my experience.

Also, just how useful is the 3 in 1 function. In all my days I have never had the need for a bull nose shoulder plane, nor a chisel plane. I am happy with a dedicated shoulder plane. The Veritas will also fit into 3/4 inch housings, so it is great for bottom clearing and adjusting the depth of these. The Clifton will not. Frankly I find that function much more useful than a chisel plane. Of course someone else's work needs might be different, but I'm just saying. I'd be interested to hear from the Clifton owners just how much the bull nose piece and shims get used and for what for.

Mike.
 
woodbrains":3oxah4a8 said:
I'd be interested to hear from the Clifton owners just how much the bull nose piece and shims get used and for what for.

I must admit that I haven't used my Clifton 3-in-1 for bull nose or chisel work but I still have my Record 077 which I bought in 1970 and occasionally use. I agree that bull nose and chisel plane use does not occur frequently and an ordinary chisel could probably be used in most situations. I primarily bought the Clifton because the size of the plane was what I wanted and it felt so good in use. I also have the Clifton 410 for narrower work.

I'm surprised at what you say about the crispness of the Clifton casting. Both my Clifton shoulder planes are very crisp and well finished.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 
bugbear":338bsaia said:
Cheshirechappie":338bsaia said:
One advantage of buying a new one is that you get a couple of shims with which you alter the mouth width if you need to; you'd be very lucky to get those with a secondhand one.

My experience differs. I don't see many Record #77s or #311's, but all the ones I've seen still have their "nose" attached, and they've all had both shims present.

Unlike #78's, which I think are used on site as "plain" rebate/shoulder planes. I see those without fence/depth stop more often than with.

BugBear

In the face of better information, I withdraw my unfounded assumption!
 
woodbrains":2clrohlk said:
Hello,

I have had the Veritas medium shoulder plane since the day it was introduced, I was in America at the time and pre ordered one before they were on general sale. I have to say it is absolutely great. A friend of mine got a Clifton 3 in 1 about the same time, and the castings were just not as crisp as they should have been for a tool of that price point. It might have been that he got a below par one, but that is my experience.

Also, just how useful is the 3 in 1 function. In all my days I have never had the need for a bull nose shoulder plane, nor a chisel plane. I am happy with a dedicated shoulder plane. The Veritas will also fit into 3/4 inch housings, so it is great for bottom clearing and adjusting the depth of these. The Clifton will not. Frankly I find that function much more useful than a chisel plane. Of course someone else's work needs might be different, but I'm just saying. I'd be interested to hear from the Clifton owners just how much the bull nose piece and shims get used and for what for.

Mike.

I'm a bit surprised that you don't regard the Clifton castings you've seen too highly. Mine are as crisp as you could wish, and the finish is excellent (and I've seen a LOT of castings to judge against).

For depthing housings, I prefer a hand router to a shoulder plane - but all that proves is that there are more ways than one to do almost anything!

I have used the mouth-opening shims, when cutting small rebates in softwoods, and they were a blessing in that application. That was before I had any proper rebate planes - the Cliffie did a beautifully neat job, but isn't as quick as a 'proper' rebater. I haven't used the bullnose front, but that's because I have a little Preston bullnose - the first 'proper' tool I bought secondhand, way back in the early 1980s. I find it such a neat fit in the hand, and so manouverable, that I use it instead of a block plane. That's probably not what it was intended for, and it's not something I'd plug as a recommendation, but it just works for me.
 
The primary use is for tidying up tenons. However having something that can clean out dado housings would be very handy. I was planning on buying a router plane for that.

I have to say that I've no idea what a bullnose or a chisel plane is.

Generally however I've often found that 'multipurpose' tools are often a bit naff.
 
Paul Chapman":2pr8umgk said:
I'm surprised at what you say about the crispness of the Clifton casting. Both my Clifton shoulder planes are very crisp and well finished.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Hello,

As I said, my friends Clifton might have just been one of those duds that slipped through the net, but it really wasn't too good. It might have been cast from an over used pattern, which should have been replaced with a crisp new one long before. It was a bit strange, though, him being American and buying a British tool and me a Brit trying to defend our tool making tradition on the face of a poorly cast tool. He is definitely a bit eccentric, as he bought a whole set of Clifton bench planes as well, when everyone else was (rightly) singing the praises of LN's and LV's superb offerings. I think he wanted to buck the trend and did not want to seem like a twit, when the Clifton did not come up to par.

A router plane is a good tool for making housings, but when done with an electric router (dare I mention) the shoulder plane that fits the groove is pretty handy to remove a few thou from the bottom, if the fit is found a bit shallow. If housings are sawn and then excavated with a chisel, the shoulder does a good job of levelling things up. Now a plane that negates a router really has more than one purpose. I would go for that ability over the bull nose plane, if I had to choose. Actually, for the odd occasion, I think the Veritas could be set up as a chisel plane, but I have never needed to.

Mike.
 
Nice one on the faithfull plane. Were these tools designed to trim the shoulders of tenons? I'm always surprised how often they get used for a variety of tasks.
 
To work well any shoulder plane will need setting up properly, to cut crisply into a right hand corner (so open on the left) the blade should protrude on the right hand side by a thou or two while projecting evenly along the sole.

I use a 3 in 1, a large Veritas, and a small Lie Nielsen, plus I've owned the large Lie Nielsen, and as far as I can recall they all needed at least a bit of blade reshaping before they could be set up like I mentioned. Some people have called the tiny errors that affect most shoulder planes "azimuth error", it's where a minute twist in the frog skews the blade so it won't project uniformly along both the sole and a side. A simple solution is to lay two sheets of paper across a sheet of 180 grit paper with a one inch gap between them. Set the shoulder plane up with the sole projection you want and a little more projection on the right hand side. Lay the shoulder plane down on its right hand side on the paper with the blade resting on the abrasive paper but the body protected by the sheets of paper and rub it back and forth along the gap so that the abrasive paper reforms the side of the blade into the perfect profile. It only takes a few strokes and really improves the performance.
 
I have a Clifton 311 that i bought at an axminster show it was a second slight hole in the casting and not finished very well .I have never used it as a chisel or bull nose plane and wished i had gone for a one piece plane as i dont change the shims either .I only use it for trimming tenon shoulders ,but thought when i bought it that the three functions would be a good thing not so.I think Morfa s quote is about right its a bit naf.My old man has the Veritas and he is really pleased with it ,i have tried it and it feels easier to hold and looks like a better quality tool to me.I think before you buy try and see if you can take them for a test run.

Cheers Bern.
 
clifton seconds r a good bit cheaper and have no defects that effect use! usually just a hole somewhere away from the sole.
regards
rick
 
I don't think I'm going to be in a position to try any of them out sadly. I do however think that if I really didn't get on with one of the planes they have good resale value, so I wouldn't loose much to try it out.
 
morfa":1zg2jfno said:
I don't think I'm going to be in a position to try any of them out sadly. I do however think that if I really didn't get on with one of the planes they have good resale value, so I wouldn't loose much to try it out.

I wanted to try a 311 and was astounded at the prices, however I managed to get one on evil bay for £40, which seemed reasonable for me to waste. It came in the original, knackered, box with the two noses but no shims, most of the nickel had gone too and there appears to be a slight issue with the seating of the iron, or my sharpening. Admittedly I had to wait months for it to come up at the right price but patience prevailed. So far I've found it to be very good for quite a few jobs and would recommend one of these. For instance, I've been working on a Victorian door and frame the past couple of days, The bottom of the upright bits on the frame were rotten so I've had to replace these, I've used the 311 to tidy up the cut-outs for fit, cut in rebates and also continue an inset quarter rounded moulding which was not a standard size for router bits. I'd have been b******d without it in fact. It seems to be a versatile tool which can be put to lots of uses. The only downside is that it can be a pain in the a**e to hold and use for any length of time cos it's a bit sharp on the edges, plus the sharp bit of the iron is in exactly the place where you want to hold it with your fingers for some jobs. Practice stops you doing that after a day or two though. It seems to work well with either nose on, I can't see the reason for the shims as you'd need to take a b****y thick shaving for them to make any sense and you wouldn't be able to cut that much out comfortably (unless it's for cheese or parma ham). It's not particularly good without a nose on, but that could be due to my own cack-handedness. Do chisel planes actually work anyway? Whats wrong with a chisel?
 
RossJarvis":mkql92ae said:
I wanted to try a 311 and was astounded at the prices, however I managed to get one on evil bay for £40, which seemed reasonable for me to waste. It came in the original, knackered, box with the two noses but no shims, most of the nickel had gone too and there appears to be a slight issue with the seating of the iron, or my sharpening. Admittedly I had to wait months for it to come up at the right price but patience prevailed. So far I've found it to be very good for quite a few jobs and would recommend one of these. For instance, I've been working on a Victorian door and frame the past couple of days, The bottom of the upright bits on the frame were rotten so I've had to replace these, I've used the 311 to tidy up the cut-outs for fit, cut in rebates and also continue an inset quarter rounded moulding which was not a standard size for router bits. I'd have been b******d without it in fact. It seems to be a versatile tool which can be put to lots of uses. The only downside is that it can be a pain in the a**e to hold and use for any length of time cos it's a bit sharp on the edges, plus the sharp bit of the iron is in exactly the place where you want to hold it with your fingers for some jobs. Practice stops you doing that after a day or two though. It seems to work well with either nose on, I can't see the reason for the shims as you'd need to take a b****y thick shaving for them to make any sense and you wouldn't be able to cut that much out comfortably (unless it's for cheese or parma ham). It's not particularly good without a nose on, but that could be due to my own cack-handedness. Do chisel planes actually work anyway? Whats wrong with a chisel?

Thanks for the extra detail. I'll keep an eye on fleabay and see if anything turns up over the next few months.
 
bugbear":2jl3kbj6 said:
My experience differs. I don't see many Record #77s or #311's, but all the ones I've seen still have their "nose" attached, and they've all had both shims present.
BugBear

My little Record 077 still has both shims. On the other hand, I'e managed to lose the adjusting nut and spindle - anybody got one to spare?
 
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