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Blister

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Hello

What do you guys think?
Both very low priced / low quality saws

Best to save up for something better
 

Blister

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I would say either of these 2

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod32495/

or

http://www.hegner.co.uk/Hegner_Multicut_1

either the HM1 ( Fixed speed )

or the HM1V ( variable speed )

Yes they are a lot more to buy but if you enjoy the hobby they will both last for years

Or if you decide its not for you either can be sold for very good ( High ) second hand prices

If you buy either of the 2 you first mentioned and try and re sell you will get perhaps £20 to £30

The cheap machines are a nightmare for blade changes and setup ( All very frustrating )

As apposed to the quality saws

Hope you make the wise decisions

All the best

Allen :wink:
 

brianhabby

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Thanks Allen,

Of the two that I originally linked to I was thinking of the SIP partly because I already have a couple of their tools (table saw & bobbin sander) and am very happy with them.

With the Axi one being three times the price of the SIP, I'll have to re-think the issue.

What do others think?

regards

Brian
 

kevin dwyer

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the guys are right, cheap fretsaws are nasty and don't cut straight. there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev.
 

hawkinob

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"there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev."

Hi,
I would look through the various forums and see what others think/say about the Excalibur. I don't have one and don't intend to buy one BUT I do like all that they say they can do.
Whilst the lower priced saws may not be as "comfortable" to use, that was the way I started - put my foot in the water before jumping in - I found I could do all that my, now, Hegner 'lookalike' does albeit I now don't grumble so much nor have to blow the dust away!!!
Good luck and enjoy.
Bob H.
 

Gill

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hawkinob":2mjwyjtn said:
I would look through the various forums and see what others think/say about the Excalibur.
Indeed. The Excalibur promised so much when the brand was resurrected but many American owners are expressing their disappointment with the new machines. It seems the build quality does not match that of earlier machines.
 

brianhabby

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kevin dwyer":21j9u8ls said:
there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev.
They are EX-21 and EX-30 both well over £500 on the Axi site but currently in the £185 range. They have steel tables instead of cast iron. One thing I did notice was the blade tilts instead of the table - is this a good thing or a gimmick? Seems to make sense to me.

regards

Brian
 

hawkinob

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"One thing I did notice was the blade tilts instead of the table - is this a good thing or a gimmick? Seems to make sense to me."

Hi,
I reckon that would be a plus - ever tried cutting at 45 degrees, or even 30 degrees, on a tilted table? I have done both and it worked but my heart was in my mouth each time. Also I believe that the Excalibur blade tilts both way, not sure about that but if it does then again well worth having that option. Having said that I still wouldn't buy the Excalibur, rather have a "starter" model. Rather too many complaints about the saw.
Bob H.
 

tinytim1458

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Hi Brian i have the earlier SIP scroll saw which is good and still going, you get some vibration from it just had to make a sand box for it to sit on to eliminate the vibration but that is because i have it on a wooden bench which is on a wooden floor so made the vibration ten times worse till i made the sand box. Less vibration if on a concrete floor and if overtop of a leg of the bench you are working on. The new sip one has a plain blade quick change system which makes it easier to change also is a variable speed model. A good machine that does all that i throw at it.
Saying that though if i had the money i would go for the axminster scroll saw but not the excaliber version as it has had bad press saying that i have not heard anything bad about the 16" version i would go for the Axminster AWFS18 Scrollsaw which is like the Hegnar as it does seem a better machine has quick blade change system and little if any vibration. Would be better if you could get yourself down to your local Axminster shop to try the machines for yourself, that way you can see which machine you prefer before you outlay any money.
Thanks tim
 

brianhabby

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Thanks people,

I wonder about the Excalibers. If they are poorly made as has been indicated, I wonder about those that Axi sell on eBay. They say they are returns but that they have been fixed by their engineers. Maybe if the machines have been tweaked on an individual basis they might be alright now - Am I trying to convince my self?

Certainly got more to think about now.

regards

Brian
 

artanddecco

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the guys are right, cheap fretsaws are nasty and don't cut straight. there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev.

As a novice Sheppach 405 user, I am curious about the above statement, as I am sure my Fretsaw falls into this category ! I don't find it at all nasty, in fact think its great value for money, but I agree that it does not cut straight, but always thought that this applied to all scroll saws and Bandsaws. Would be most interested to know how this does not happen on a more expensive machine, assuming both use the same blade, the same tension, same speed, same power, same wood. I know that the throat plates can be different, but cannot see how this can make a difference, as the blades do not touch it. Have the more expensive ones got some type of blade guides that I am unaware of !
I can understand that perhaps a more expensive machine has a better system of securing the blade in the lower clamp for easier access, but this will not affect the factor of straight cutting, just curious, have always wondered why people rave about more expensive machines.
John
 

Gill

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All scroll saws have a cutting bias towards the right. It's nothing to do with the saws; it's the nature of the blades. Although precision ground blades have a less pronounced tendency to drift to the right, the tendency remains nevertheless.

Why buy a more expensive saw? They are engineered better, they are more durable, they are heavier (which means less vibration), they have quicker blade changing, they have more user-friendly tensioning systems, they have a greater depth of cut and they have better customer support. All in all, they make the scrolling experience more enjoyable. I suppose there's also a cachet about coming onto a forum like this and declaring ownership of a Hegner rather than a Pro-line.

In the past I have advocated that new scrollers should consider how much use they will get out of their new saw before it needs to be replaced. If you search back through the forum you will see calculations that you could buy ten new SIP saws for the price of one comparable Hegner and I suggested that the purchase of an SIP made economic sense. That was in the days when SIP saws were manufactured to a decent standard. Alas, their standards seem to have slipped. It appears that new scrollers now risk having their enthusiasm for scrolling quashed by poor quality 'entry-level' saws and I have revised my opinion; it is wiser to acquire a good saw from the outset to avoid this disappointment.
 

artanddecco

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Thats a good sensible reply Gill, I would love now to have the opportunity to see the improvement in blade changing in the Hegner to my Sheppach, as its only Blade Changing so far that bugs me. Its too fiddly in the lower blade holder, but no problem on the upper. Fortunately, I dont need to change it too often. Another thing is having to unscrew the lower shield in order to vacuum out the sawdust that collects underneath. Not user friendly enough.
John
 

Chippygeoff

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Hi artanddecco.

I have been reading the post on this thread with much interest. I feel really sorry for people taking up scroll saw work today, although there are many scroll saws out there on the market most of them or 99% of them are Chiwanese. Gill has given very sound advice on this subject and everyone who reads what she has written should take note. I am going to be completely honest here and say that I am really fed up with the state of the scroll saw market. Many of the machines available from companies like draper, Jet, Poolewood, Charnwood, record power and many many more are one and the same machine. I was at hospital yesterday and in the waiting room I was looking at a "spot the difference," on two pictures in a magazine and I was reminded when I last looked at scroll saws and how many of them looked exactly the same but some had a different knob or the colour was changed. many of them are coming out of the same Chiwanese factory. They have no idea what scroll sawing is about let alone put a machine together.

As Many know i returned my excalibur some time ago as Doddy has from the forum. I can easily see how people are pleased with then if they have upgraded from a cheap and nasty import. The excalibur's seem great but the greatness wears off. I am sometimes using my saws 14 hours a day and the excalibur cant cope with that, it is very poorly made, the material its made from is rubbish and how they have the nerve to charge over £500 is nobodies business. Doody and I are both ordering Hegner HM2-SVs. They are the finest saws in the world, everything about them is just perfect and they are made from aircraft quality materials. They are very expensive but mine will still be going strong long after I have departed this world.

By God I am glad I got that off my chest.
 

Gill

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Oh, come on, Brian! We've all robbed at least two banks in our time in order to fund our hobby.







Or is that just me?

;)
 
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