Quantcast

which sander? Metabo duo or festool rotex 150.

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

kevin m

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2005
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
london
Hi, I am new to this forum. I want to get a new sander which will give the best dust extraction. Some of you have the Metabo sander and I was wondering how good the dust collection is with an extractor fitted. I recently bought the Festool TS55 plunge saw and the festool ct22 dust extractor and am very impressed. But the Rotex is £340 and the Metabo is on special offer and is only £140. Many thanks in advance of any replies.
 

Philly

Established Member
Joined
24 Nov 2003
Messages
6,874
Reaction score
0
Location
Dorset, England.
Hi Kev
Welcome to the forum!!
The Metabo will remove pretty much all the sawdust when conected to a dust extractor (as long as you keep it flat on the workpiece!)
The Festool is nice but the Metabo gives you the same quality finish and lack of vibration for a lot less! :wink:
Cheers
Philly :D
 

Scott

Established Member
Joined
18 Oct 2004
Messages
846
Reaction score
0
kevin m":1mpituwa said:
I was wondering how good the dust collection is with an extractor fitted
Seems pretty good to me! :D

Welcome to the forum Kevin. I think there was a similar thread about these two sanders earlier. If you do a search you might be able to find it. Basically a couple of people (myself included) couldn't really see that any sander could be so much better than the Metabo as to justify the cost of the Festool but someone (posssibly Neil or Tony??) argued that the Festool was indeed much better.

I haven't used the Festool so I'm afraid I couldn't do a direct comparison
 

ProShop

Established Member
Joined
19 Apr 2004
Messages
1,048
Reaction score
0
Location
North Lincolnshire
I tried the Festool and was disapointed with the vibration. I then tried the Metabo and IMHO it's a better machine & dust extraction is very good.
Given the huge price difference there is only one winner :D
 

Jake

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2004
Messages
4,921
Reaction score
15
Location
London
It isn't actually a fair comparison. The rotex is an orbital/random orbital sander, not a coarse/fine random orbital like the duo. For cabinet making the latter is more useful. For other applications, the Rotex can shunt material quickly in orbital mode that the duo would take far too long to achieve.

Compare the duo with one of the Festool random orbits if you want to compare closer to like-with-like, but I don't think they have a single ROS with both coarse and fine settings so there isn't actually a directly comparable product.
 

SimonA

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2004
Messages
360
Reaction score
0
Location
North East
Hi Kevin....

Jakes, right its not really a fair comparison....if your looking for something along the same lines then you should be looking at the ETS150/3 or ETS/5.

These are both ROS but one is better at stock removal(5) and the other one is better for fine finishing(3). I bought the ETS150 for fine finishing and have found that with a heavy grit it still removes stock at a bloody quick rate! It also has excellent dust exctration about 95%, about the only stuff thats left is whats in the grain......and it will fit directly onto your CT22!

Is it possible to ask where you bought you CT22 and TS55 from as I'm in the market for these two items;-)

SimonA

SimonA
 

kevin m

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2005
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
london
hi, thanks for all the replies. Still not decided but I am very temped by the Metabo as the price is right and my recent facination with Festool (drooling over the Festool catalogue) might go into decline. I Bought my ts55 and ct22 From Daves in Finchley, London because they are my nearest Festool stockist and matched the prices from Protrade. I am very impressed with the saw and the dust extractor is good but when i got home from work and looked in the new festool catalogue 05/06 it says its not suitable for hazardous wood dust! Festool uk still have not clarified the matter after repeated phone calls and I am temped to bring it back and get the trend extractor instead as it is under half the price. I work alot with MDF and my lungs have already had 15 years of abuse!
 

ProShop

Established Member
Joined
19 Apr 2004
Messages
1,048
Reaction score
0
Location
North Lincolnshire
Kevin M,

what do Festool claim the extractor filters down to in Micron terms ?. 0.5 microns being hospital clean, I've seen some claim down to 0.3 microns.
 

SimonA

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2004
Messages
360
Reaction score
0
Location
North East
John, Festool do state,on their website, that the standard CT22 E is for "non hazardous dust." But they don't state what micron that they filter down to in this machine.

They also do a CTM22 E which thay state as being:

"Type-tested in accordance with EN 60335/IEC 335, dust class M certification for dusts with MAK values greater than 0.1 mg/m[3] and wood dust."

Which from what I can gather, quickly reading on google, is cleared for both use in hospitals and formaldahyde(sp?) products.....

I could be totally off base here, but its worth getting onto Festool to find out. I would have thought for standard useage the CT22 would have been fine for 99% of jobs though.

SimonA
 

kevin m

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2005
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
london
The trend T30AF extractor goes down to 0.3 microns. The Festool CTL22 has another measurement which is MAK value>1mg/m3 but their CTM extractors go to MAK value>0.1mg/m3. They say the CTM is suitable for wood dust and the ctl is not.Before I bought it I had phoned festool and they said both their machines filtered to the same amount but the CTM has an audible warning if the pressure in the machine drops. The CTM costs nearer the £500 mark. I bought the ctl22 thinking that it would filter the same now I am confused. I am sure the smaller dust particles are the worst as guess they go deeper into the lungs. Hopefully someone might understand these measurements better than me.
 

SimonA

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2004
Messages
360
Reaction score
0
Location
North East
Just quoting from the Festool catalogue here and they class wood dust such as Beech and Oak to be hazardous. They also go on to say that in Germany extractors with only the M certification must be used when working with wood!

It also points out that these machines should only be emptied and serviced(including the removal of the dust bag) by a specialist using appropriate protection!...

This all sounds a bit off putting to be honest, but like I said before I think th CT22 would be ok for 99% of the jobs us hobbyists/ semi-pros do.....but I think if I was using it all day, every day then I might be purchasing the CTM22 E.

One thing to point out is that not many people/sites off the CTM version of the extractor or probably know of its exsitence, but are yet happy to sell us the CT22 for all our woodworking needs!

SimonA
 

Adam

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2003
Messages
3,768
Reaction score
0
Location
UK
SimonA":24ahl968 said:
Just quoting from the Festool catalogue here and they class wood dust such as Beech and Oak to be hazardous.
Correct. They are. A quick look at the HSE website will confirm that *all* dust is bad for you. People get quite hung up on MDF but in fact any wood dust is harmful.

Adam
 

SimonA

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2004
Messages
360
Reaction score
0
Location
North East
Howdy Adam......I knew that wood dust is harmful but I would have though that the standard CT22 would be able to cope with it and that the CTM22 would be for things like asbestos etc.....

SimonA
 

paulm

Established Member
Joined
25 Sep 2005
Messages
3,430
Reaction score
0
Location
North Hampshire
Don't think you will be dissapointed with the Metabo Duo, it's very well engineered and solid, little vibration, and dust extraction is very good if hooked up to an extractor. Forget the dust bags which seem to do little good !

Excellent bit of kit, and the two orbit settings make it very versatile.

Would be happy with the Trend extractor myself as 0.3microns is about the best I've seen unless you want to get down to laboratory/operating theatre standards !

Couple the Trend with an ambient air cleaner like a Microclene or similar and they should cover most eventualities. If really concerned then go with one of the airflow type helmets as well !
 

kevin m

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2005
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
london
I have to say Festool UK have been slow to clarify anything with me. It has been a week now.I phoned them again today and they said they would phone me back, which they didn't. I was thinking of buying more of their tools but I am feeling let down and that the German efficiency must only be in Germany! I had the fantasy that I could be like the organised Festool workers in the Festool catalogue. I now realise I will still be surronded with tools and leads everywhere and no matter how good the extractor you still get dust flying around and I can't bear wearing a dust mask for eight hours a day, although I do wear one when I am cutting wood. After reading about the Trend airshield on here maybe I should get one of them. If Festool dont get back to me tomorrow then its definatly Metabo for me!!!
 

SimonA

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2004
Messages
360
Reaction score
0
Location
North East
I have to totally agree with you there Kevin.....the couple of occations that I've had to call them they just didn't seem interested at all!

SimonA
 

SimonA

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2004
Messages
360
Reaction score
0
Location
North East
Kevin, Just noticed that these people:

http://www.mtmc.co.uk

stock a very large range of Festool gear so it might be worth contacting them about the info on the extractor. I've placed a few orders with them in the past and I haven't had any problems with them.

SimonA
 

Jake

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2004
Messages
4,921
Reaction score
15
Location
London
Minden aren't very good in my experience. They seem to me to have a poor customer service approach, of the type that can develop when a company rests on the snobbish laurels (and undoubted quality) of a brand they are selling. Like the attitude that the worst kind of BMW/Merc dealerships are reputed to have "we sell the best and there is no competition so it doesn't matter if we treat customers poorly, you should be grateful that we deign talk to you at all".

I exaggerate, of course. But they don't try very hard, in a way that suggests that they don't think they should have to. When i had a beef with them, all down to poor packaging and delivery, they made me feel as if it was my fault somehow. Eventually, they sorted it, but it took a long time, they didn't apologise and I had to request some form of recompense before any was offered, and when they grudgingly agred to gave something, it turned out be miserly.

If I were Festool I would bin them. It detracts from the brand.
 

trevtheturner

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2003
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
0
Location
Herefordshire, UK.
It sounds like a Duo, then, Kevin!

I have one, cannot fault its quality or performance and am certainly not looking for anything else to replace it. Connected to a cheap B&Q workshop vac. dust extraction is excellent with nothing noticeable left behind. I do also wear a Trend-type respirator for the various jobs where I create a bit, or a lot, of dust. Expensive bit of kit for what it is but I would not be without it and I consider it worth every penny.

Cheers,

Trev.
 

kevin m

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2005
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
london
Thanks for all the comments everyone, I think I will go to the DM woodworking show on this weekend at kempton and see if I can get my hands on a Metabo to try at least. I spoke to Roy at festool and he says he will look into the extractor filtration but as far as he knows its the same as the CTM extractor. I Think the money I save on not getting the Festool sander would nicely pay for a respirator like the trend one.
 
Top