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SlimShavings

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OVer here in the colonies we don't seem to be able to make any decent tools anymore. With few exceptions. Lee Valley ,LN and a few others who seem to understand how to do it. We have a mass exodus for cheap rubbish from china.
More and more we look to european tools fro quality. So I was wondering how many tools in europe are made in Taiwan or China
 

MikeW

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SlimShavings":2jfhgihy said:
OVer here in the colonies we don't seem to be able to make any decent tools anymore. With few exceptions. Lee Valley ,LN and a few others who seem to understand how to do it. We have a mass exodus for cheap rubbish from china...
Can't speak for those you are actually addressing.

I agree in part to your sentiments--but there are still some fine manufacturers in North America.

Here are some North American hand tool manufacturers you didn't mention. There are still others.

http://www.knight-toolworks.com
http://www.barrtools.com
http://www.bridgecitytools.com
http://www.hocktools.com
http://www.shepherdtool.com
http://www.planemaker.com
http://www.woodjoytools.com
http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com
http://www.adriatools.com
http://www.starrett.com

There are still a few power tools still made here as well. General in Canada comes to mind. WoodMaster, Hawk (http://www.rbiwoodtools.com) etc.

Mike
 

SlimShavings

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Mike
As I would prefer to work with handtools primarily,making a living requires the old electrons. :) I guess that is what i was mostly wondering about. But there were no forums on those that I saw.:)
i have tools from knight,Sphear.lee valley.RBI etc. And they are good tools. I would like to be able to buy american made electric tools to match. And I just don't see the europeans jump on the outsource bandwagons as we have stateside. and i believe there cost of living is higher than ours.
 

MikeW

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Hi Slim,

Yes, the costs of labor, insurance, the marketplace expecting ever better prices and good ol' corporate greed has moved many American manufacturers of electric tools to produce them out of the country. Tis a pity.

While I cannot answer concerning where good European tools are made, I know that over the years quality has gone down hill for many of the good old Euro tool makers. Some on the continent have simply vanished like many do.

I am in the same position as you. While I relish the commissions that afford me the what-is-now a luxury of working primarily with hand tools, there is a mix of the electron burners. And perhaps rightly so. Repitition of tasks come to mind as a great use of machines. As well as, well, the things I would just as soon get through like when I have to sand. And I do like making mortise and tenons with the WoodRat, the stand mortiser, bandsaw or whatever I decide to use at the time.

Perhaps this can be viewed as an anti-American sentiment, but I could mostly care less where they are made--as long as they provide a certain amount of dependibility and ease of use. I too am a consumer.

The loss of jobs to oversees while unfortunate is mostly a near romantic longing for quality American products, imho. The gain and loss of jobs has always been with any country and is a function--like always, of economics and marketplace perception.

Well look at me. Rambling on like this. Guess I better go pick up the shop.

Mike
 

SlimShavings

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I resolve the electron burners as if they were the appretices of old. I agree with you mostly about where there made. I should add I have a ELU TGS 182 that is older than dirt and still going strong. But look what B&D did to them. My son in law is a tool and die maker and has a lot to say about stuff made in Mexico and Asia. While it a lot about quality control there machinery mostly is older than dirt too. Ford pulled a bunch of production out of Mexico. And it seems not only are we fighting for our manufaturing here but jobs (with its standard of living) There's was always a differnt mind set about quality in most old European and American Tools. Wonder how many Bench top planers from 2000 you will see in 2050. The old mindset of buying a tool and having it on your bench or plugged in 25 years from now is way past gone
 

Philly

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Mike/ S.S
There still are some power tools made in Britain and Europe-Makita, DeWalt, and Metabo among others. I feel these tools are built to a much higher standar, and as you say, you bought it and it sat in your shop for 25 years without breaking down.........
Most of the Far East imports are amazingly low priced. They also are amazingly cheaply built and this has led to our "disposable" society-buy it, use it for a little while and throw it away, as it is too much hassle to get it repaired (even if you could get spares) and it is cheaper to just buy another cheap (rubbish? :roll: ) tool.
See the recent threads on cheap 1/2 inch routers for a reminder....
Cheers
Philly :D
 

Chris Knight

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Good morning guys!

The grass is always greener isn't it? I think you will find that most of us in the UK feel that the USA is a tool heaven where unisaws and dado heads are enshrined in a Bill of Rights. And of course that's where LN planes are made isn't it (LV are Canadian we know - but Canada is practically part of the US isn't it? :wink: )

In truth I think our situations are pretty much alike in most respects. We have our own Borgs where you can buy a router practically for the price of a Big Mac - trouble is it was made in China by a guy who can't afford a Big Mac and has no idea that a router was meant to be accurate etc. We also have our form of LN in Clifton (they have yet to make chisels and a lot of the LN goodies but the bench and shoulder planes are there).

Our power tools bear familiar names (Dewalt, Bosch etc. and made in China like yours) but also we also have ones that are less familiar perhaps (Metabo, Mafell) which are from Europe. Festool sets the standard and you have them too.

I guess where we differ a lot and where our envy is normally justified is in the size of our shops. To you a small shop is our idea of unlimited space. You also seem to have many more woodworkers per head of population and more vibrant communities of like minded folk (I'm thinking of the many woodworking clubs and associations I see on the web).

You of course have Norm but we do get to see him too although the one TV channel that shows him also takes him off the air periodically. And whatever one says about him, he is a million times better than the rubbishy shows we get with names like "Changing Rooms" where a bunch of idiots try to redecorate/remodel a room in a weekend and end up with a cheap stage set that probably falls apart the next weekend.

I could go on but you get the idea!
 
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Slimshavings

I think most of us feel the same. However, I would say that a lot of British woodworkers consider many American tools as superior quality :?

For instance, I have (with considerable difficulty in some cases) managed to get a Porter Cable router, Delta Thichnesser and LN planes (+ LV which is nearly American as Chris said :wink: )

If Delta and PC kit had been widely available in Englnad,l then I would probably have manuy more items from these companies as the quality of those I do have is outstanding
 

Alf

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Welcome to the forum, Slim, Mike.

SlimShavings":3uqwzzcr said:
So I was wondering how many tools in europe are made in Taiwan or China
More and more of them... :(

Tony":3uqwzzcr said:
LV which is nearly American as Chris said :wink:
pace Rob, Frank D et al... 8-[

Cheers, Alf
 

SlimShavings

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Thanks Gentlemen
I was wanting to put things into perspective. Never know unless you ask. Maybe I an alone in thinking the old country does a better job in keeping the traditions and romance of woodworking.:) Looks like were all in the same boat. I wonder where are allegiance will be in a few years
 

MikeW

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waterhead37":2l552gll said:
Good morning guys!

...I guess where we differ a lot and where our envy is normally justified is in the size of our shops. To you a small shop is our idea of unlimited space.
Good Morning to you, Chris.

That is, unless you knew the size of my shop :cry: It is a scant 11' 6" square. When you consider that I work out of it fulltime and one of my sons a little over halftime--then add the fact my wife is a turner and we sometimes compete for the bandsaw, let alone space, and...you get the picture.

But I really do agree. Even though my situation may be more unique, I do have plenty of space on our property to build upon. In the year that I have been doing this madness fulltime, though, I haven't made up my mind as to whether it is better to build on the property or lease something off the property.

waterhead37":2l552gll said:
...You also seem to have many more woodworkers per head of population and more vibrant communities of like minded folk (I'm thinking of the many woodworking clubs and associations I see on the web).
Isn't it funny? I was just thinking something about this last night concerning the guild meeting I was returning from last night. Perhaps like Slim, but in a different way, I have a romantic idea of what a guild ought to be largely based upon the old European guilds--of which I really know next to nothing. Maybe I'll kick off a new thread on the subject?

Well, I think I have definitely had enough coffee :shock: while reading posts and writing this. I should get out to the shop--before my wife heads out there :)
 

SlimShavings

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NOw I got to apologize twice. that uses up the whole year. First my apologize to the LADY :D Second being a knot head at heart which one are you :oops:
As for the romance of woodworking I save that for when I'm reading a ww mag or on a forum. when I go to the shop I just grumble :) unless its for me
 

MikeW

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SlimShavings":1rlmwa3e said:
...As for the romance of woodworking I save that for when I'm reading a ww mag or on a forum...
Ah, the problem of dashing off a quick post before heading out to the shop. The statement I made probably applied more to me than to Slim. I was mainly referring to the preference of using only handtools to make a living--if one could.

I apologize if I misstated your view on the subject... :oops:
 
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I was recentley on the phone to porter cable in the UK and the guy that i spoke to made a comment that didn't really sink in at the time the comment was that porter cable have taken over dewalt in the US it came about because i was after some profile sanding pads and he had said that they import them from america and that the quality had degraded some what in some of the more recent batches. To the guys in the USA, is this true or did i missunderstand him, he was a brummy after all :lol: :lol: . Just kidding.
 

Alf

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SlimShavings":1utspjlj said:
First my apologize to the LADY :D Second being a knot head at heart which one are you :oops:
Guilty. Don't worry about it; it's my own fault for having the nickname I do. :D

Cheers, Alf
 

MikeW

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derek681":28ee64m0 said:
...i was after some profile sanding pads and he had said that they import them from america and that the quality had degraded some what in some of the more recent batches. To the guys in the USA, is this true or did i missunderstand him, he was a brummy after all :lol: :lol: . Just kidding.
Hello Derek,

I don't know if they have degraded or not. I have not tried the PC profile sander for some time. On the one jobsite I used it, it worked fine as did the Fein sander.

I do have some moldings to make to match some existing molding and as I need to sand these I have been looking at profile sanders again. I'm seriously considering the Festool linear sander, though. I have used one at a local Woodcraft and it really works great.

I really appreciate Festool's quality. Currently the only one of their tools I own (gloat alert) is the OF 2000 E router, which mainly resides on the 'Rat. It is a very nice tool, which is why I'll probably purchase from them again.

With all that said, I have a couple other PC tools, recent and old purchases, and they seem comperable in quality.

Regards,
Mike
 
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I would recommend the porter cable profile sander i have used quite a few in this one definatley ranks no.1 although i havn't tried the festool one as over here they are quite expensive.
 

Noel

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Hey Derek, tell that Brummy person (a person from Birmingham- not Alabama one...) that B + D bought out Pentair's tool division ie PC, Delta, Devilbliss etc. And, of course, DeWally is a division of B + D.

Noel
 

Sam Salter

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I was under the impression that the whole bunch - Porter-Cable / DeWalt / Delta were now owned by Black & Decker (exit stage left feeling sick!).
Isn't that right you guys down south?
(Sorry Noel, I missed your post!)
sam :)
 
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