When Ebay Goes Wrong

[D_W]

I've been on a tear lately with ebay, enough so that I'm getting weary. I've gotten 8 sets of chisels to play with (at prices that I can sell them later and no damage), a couple more infill planes (which is important to me only because I like to have patterns to try to see what I'm going to make), including a wonderful A13 panel plane with rosewood (cross my fingers that customs doesn't nab it).

About an hour ago, I "won" 8 or 9 rusty footprint red acetate bevel edge chisels for 12.50 (quid). They'll never be a prize, but I quite like them and consider them steel-wise to be as good as any western chisel ever made.

The seller apparently didn't like the outcome, and cancelled the auction and said they made a "listing mistake".

I sent them a message back and said "like what kind, like the kind where you cancel the auction because you don't like the sale price?"

Of course, ebay is extremely dependent on photo quality and rusty tools sell like crap - you can't take a good photo of them because of the rust - no way around it. I have a desire to refurbish tools sometimes, and can usually make short work of something like that. Others won't.

I predict the seller won't get satisfaction (and haven't gotten a response yet). this isn't the first time I've had a transaction cancelled, but I have gotten some sellers who come through, and i have *never* halted a sale based on the outcome, even though I have done such things as ship a set of 5 buck chisels that brought $9.32.

On the flip side, I did get a rusty spiers coffin infill plane last year that scared folks away for two reasons - first for the rust, and second because the seller used a picture of the iron by itself as the listing photo. Most people probably didn't think the sale was for a plane at all. It brought a princely sum of $125 equivalent. I've filed the rust off and reconditioned it and will post a photo tonight. It really took very little because the wood on it is perfect (only about an hour total invested so far, and will spend 10 more minutes on the lap for the sole to be flat, and probably 20 more applying coats of oil and then shellac.

 

[tony_s]

I had this happen to me a few years ago; when I complained to ebay they very much took the vendors side saying that it was their property and (to paraphrase), that they were entitled to change their mind. This kind of behaviour is weird, given that it costs more to list an item with a reserve, therefore ebay are losing money on their listing fees if they're going to allow sellers to withdraw lots when they don't reach the prices they're expecting. At the same time I appreciate it's a difficult rule to enforce.
Frustrating tho'

 

[AndyT]

I can offer sympathy but I can't see a way to fix the problem.
I "won" a rare old tool catalogue for a low opening bid price once, but never got it as the seller had "a water leak which ruined it so he threw it away". Yeah, right.

You just have to shrug and move on. Overall, eBay works and we all have good experiences too.

 

[Lazurus]

I have sold a few things on Fleabay, my rule of thumb is to set the opening bid at the minimum I would like to get for the item, then any other bids are a bonus, where I tend to loose out is on estimating postage prices, but if I get it wrong I just suffer the difference and post it anyways. that's what I like about buying and selling on Forums such as this, its done on trust and have yet to be let down.

 

[Rorschach]

I am afraid I will have to side with the seller. Ebay makes adding a reserve price costly but it's free to list without. Sometimes you don't know the value of an item until you try and sell it.

I myself have put things up for sale thinking they might make £20 or £30 and then the auction ends at £1.50 and it was a free postage auction as well.
What to do in that situation? I would lose money if I posted it, and sometimes if that's all the item is worth I might as well keep it. So I have cancelled auctions before. It stinks for the buyer, but it stinks for the seller too.

And yes I have had the same experience before as a buyer too, frustrating but understandable. Try and think of it like a car boot, you offer your money but the buyer decides not to sell for that price, it's their prerogative.

 

[Lons]

I sent them a message back and said "like what kind, like the kind where you cancel the auction because you don't like the sale price?"

I predict the seller won't get satisfaction (and haven't gotten a response yet).

Am I reading this correctly? You've sent a message to the seller and they haven't responded but you haven't contacted Ebay yet

I wouldn't bother waiting any longer as he's not going to respond so I would send a message of complaint to Ebay asking them to penalise the seller for a breach of the rules, until you've done that you haven't given Ebay a chance to take action and they most likely haven't even picked up the cancellation.

I don't much care for Ebay which is overloaded with chancers and companies masquerading as private along with the hundreds from the far east claiming to be UK but in the years I've used them I've only had a couple of less than acceptable transactions. Guess I've been lucky.

 

[Lons]

I am afraid I will have to side with the seller. Ebay makes adding a reserve price costly but it's free to list without. Sometimes you don't know the value of an item until you try and sell it.

I myself have put things up for sale thinking they might make £20 or £30 and then the auction ends at £1.50 and it was a free postage auction as well.
What to do in that situation? I would lose money if I posted it, and sometimes if that's all the item is worth I might as well keep it. So I have cancelled auctions before. It stinks for the buyer, but it stinks for the seller too.

And yes I have had the same experience before as a buyer too, frustrating but understandable. Try and think of it like a car boot, you offer your money but the buyer decides not to sell for that price, it's their prerogative.

It is a problem for the seller and completely understandable to be disappointed but not the same as a boot sale in any way and I would be more than annoyed if a seller did that to me so can't agree with you.
Ebay and Paypal fees are extortionate but also transparent so sellers shouldn't take the risk and use Gumtree or similar if they won't pay the reserve fee. These are the actions that have soiled the auction site over the years.

Ebay rules when bidding are clear, the bid is binding and if the buyer fails to honour that unless he has a very good reason they are likely to take action.

Likewise although a seller can cancel his listing even if bids have been placed he is not allowed to do so for obvious reasons within 12 hours before the auction ends if there is a winning bid placed.
If the item has no reserve then the bid is automatically a winning bid and the seller is in breach of the rules and should be sanctioned.
In the OP case it was cancelled after ending and a clear breach, the guy should have his account cancelled.

Bob

 

[Harbo]

I’ve “sold” things at a reasonable fair price and then have to the buyer “change their minds” and refuse to pay.
Reporting to Ebay was a waste of time, I couldn’t even give the buyer a poor review.

Rod

 

[Phil Pascoe]

And we've paid for things that probably didn't even exist, and Ebay and PayPal have done five eighths of F.A.

 

[D_W]

Well, I did get a note back from the seller. He thought he was responsible for shipping to the states, but probably didn't notice that I ordered through the gsp. Rather than contact me, he just cancelled the sale instead. I told him to add shipping on to the auction total if he doesn't want to use the global shipping program, and I'll just pay him what it costs.

We'll see.

I just sold a router plane last night and messed up by forgetting to turn off free shipping. I don't intend to cancel the sale!

 

[thetyreman]

it's the sellers fault, they should either have a reserve for it, or start the bidding at a higher price.

 

[D_W]

I am afraid I will have to side with the seller. Ebay makes adding a reserve price costly but it's free to list without. Sometimes you don't know the value of an item until you try and sell it.

I myself have put things up for sale thinking they might make £20 or £30 and then the auction ends at £1.50 and it was a free postage auction as well.
What to do in that situation? I would lose money if I posted it, and sometimes if that's all the item is worth I might as well keep it. So I have cancelled auctions before. It stinks for the buyer, but it stinks for the seller too.

And yes I have had the same experience before as a buyer too, frustrating but understandable. Try and think of it like a car boot, you offer your money but the buyer decides not to sell for that price, it's their prerogative.

What do you do? You ship the item and eat the loss, it's a contract with defined terms. If you find the contract unfavorable, it's better not to enter it.

Do you give buyers a refund when they bid higher than you expected?

 

[Stormer1940]

I can offer sympathy but I can't see a way to fix the problem.
I "won" a rare old tool catalogue for a low opening bid price once, but never got it as the seller had "a water leak which ruined it so he threw it away". Yeah, right.

You just have to shrug and move on. Overall, eBay works and we all have good experiences too.

Sounds like the seller didn't want to pay the extra to put a reserve on it. People cutting corners and it all going wrong.

 

[Stormer1940]

I can offer sympathy but I can't see a way to fix the problem.
I "won" a rare old tool catalogue for a low opening bid price once, but never got it as the seller had "a water leak which ruined it so he threw it away". Yeah, right.

You just have to shrug and move on. Overall, eBay works and we all have good experiences too.

Sounds like the seller didn't want to pay the extra to put a reserve on it. People cutting corners and it all going wrong.

I am afraid I will have to side with the seller. Ebay makes adding a reserve price costly but it's free to list without. Sometimes you don't know the value of an item until you try and sell it.

I myself have put things up for sale thinking they might make £20 or £30 and then the auction ends at £1.50 and it was a free postage auction as well.
What to do in that situation? I would lose money if I posted it, and sometimes if that's all the item is worth I might as well keep it. So I have cancelled auctions before. It stinks for the buyer, but it stinks for the seller too.

And yes I have had the same experience before as a buyer too, frustrating but understandable. Try and think of it like a car boot, you offer your money but the buyer decides not to sell for that price, it's their prerogative.

Ebay is and auction site not a carboot :lol: If you don't want to pay for the reserve option then you simply put the item on for what you would accept for it bare minimum as a starting price.

 

[D_W]

Just a follow up - ebay always pushes for sellers to offer free shipping. I never do it on purpose unless it's such a trivial part of an item (e.g., I'll offer free domestic shipping on a $1k watch - who cares at that point, it weighs less than a pound packed).

If you're worried about eating shipping on a zero dollar start no-reserve auction, just charge adequate shipping. I'm fairly sure that rolling the shipping cost into the purchase price yields lower gross amounts, but produces more actual sales. I'm not into operating my listings in a way that ebay is better off but I'm worse off, nor am I sure about what happens if a buyer wants to return something (because whether or not you want to offer a return, everyone can do it, anyway, just by finding any excuse) - I'm guessing that you get to eat shipping, possibly both ways if the seller says you didn't list something properly.

I was sort of taking the piss out of the comments above when I said "do you offer money back to overbidders", but I have done that as a seller. If I list something as a penny start with no reserve (which is about 75% of my listings), sometimes people don't look at the item with a general google search. One stands out to me - "buck" firmers - modern made chisels that were sold in the states for $90 for a set of 8 or 10, I didn't favor the handles and listed them. They sold for $142 plus shipping. I refunded $52 back to the buyer and told them where they could compare prices. They were happy. Does it matter that they were? No, I guess not, but it's the right thing to do.

re: the non-payers. I get one about once every 50 items. But more recently, they come in the form of someone who wins an auction and then changes their mind, and literally just asks you to cancel the auction - after it's over, instead of being considerate enough to cancel their bid. I always tell those bidders that I'm going to wait until they've passed the payment deadline and report them as a non-paying bidder instead. It takes time to list thing, and when you list them at a penny, it should be clear that you're trying to sell the items, not hold them and relist them. You'd be surprised how angry a lot of those people get.

 

[D_W]

I’ve “sold” things at a reasonable fair price and then have to the buyer “change their minds” and refuse to pay.
Reporting to Ebay was a waste of time, I couldn’t even give the buyer a poor review.

Rod

All you can do is wait a week and then report them as non-paying. If they do it enough, they might lose the ability to bid. Ebay has also gotten very good at terminating pop-up user IDs from people who have been banned. In the old days, such an individual would've just created another ID with a spoof email address, but Ebay is getting better at it.

Losing battle, of course - best to not get frustrated about it, because harshing the sellers is better for Ebay's business, and they'll always do what's best for them.

 

[Rorschach]

I didn't think my reply would be popular, but it was truthful, probably a lot more truthful that some others are being should they find themselves in the same situation.

We can get all annoyed about it being a binding contract etc etc, at the end of the day though, if both parties do not agree to a transaction, it isn't going to happen. I have been on both sides, I just move on, life is too short.

Ebay should be treated like a car boot, that's basically what it is and just like a car boot, sometimes you get a bargain, sometimes you don't.
You can argue all you like about what "should" happen in the world, or you can accept the reality of what does happen.

 

[D_W]

I think the difference between you and other responders isn't honesty, it's guilt.

Even though I don't know the people on the other end of the computer screen buying my stuff, if I stiffed them on a concrete written agreement, I'd feel pretty small. It's not worth the money gain to me. There's enough of that in this world already.

At the same time, if someone stiffs me in a transaction (on either side), I'll do as much as I can to punish them. The buyers who want to back out after the sale is over, non-paying bidder 100% of the time, and those who do what the seller did yesterday at the outset, I report them.

Your rationale supposes that contracts are no different than no contract. I say I'll do something, I'll do it. You say you'll do something, you'll check again later to see if you will. And with no regard as to whether or not you're wasting the time of the buyer or having them pass on other auctions that they'd have bid on. You probably shouldn't sell on ebay if you think that's OK.

 

[Sideways]

I didn't think my reply would be popular, but it was truthful, probably a lot more truthful that some others are being should they find themselves in the same situation.

We can get all annoyed about it being a binding contract etc etc, at the end of the day though, if both parties do not agree to a transaction, it isn't going to happen. I have been on both sides, I just move on, life is too short.

Ebay should be treated like a car boot, that's basically what it is and just like a car boot, sometimes you get a bargain, sometimes you don't.
You can argue all you like about what "should" happen in the world, or you can accept the reality of what does happen.

Sorry , but I don't agree. It's an online auction site. If you stood in an auction house and bid against a bunch of other guys, then decided you didn't want it after all, the auctioneers would soon set you straight about the meaning of the word contract.

I agree that ebay are pretty useless these days but raise a case.

 

[D_W]

I'm not trying to be overly harsh in my comments above, it's just literally an issue of keeping your word, especially when breaking it is entirely avoidable (as in, if you're worried about being in the negative after paying for shipping, then charge for shipping. If you're worried about not getting enough for an item, list it fixed price).

If the terms aren't amenable, then don't participate in the site at all. If you can't afford to be honest money-wise, then the problem started earlier. It's free to buy nothing and sell nothing.