What is a fair price for timber

[woodfarmer]

As I deal in firewood and not timber i have no idea of the price it should be, I have been looking around locally and have found the following.
One small oak beam 200mm wide 100mm thick and 2.5 metres long sawn all round seasoned.
I could probably get 11x 8" blanks 4" thick out of this for little bowls or cut and glue to make some of them 12"x4" blanks
One ash board about 35-40 cm wide 9 cm thick 2 metres long seasoned
I could get 5 x 14" or maybe a bit bigger blanks from this. board is clear very slight say 1/4" curve across its width, cut well away from the centre.

an oak tree trunk, green 1 metre long and at least 50 cm diameter. could be cut to make 4 x nearly 20" bowls

can anyone give me a reasonable price for any or all of these?

I also found a source of walnut but cut into inch or inch and a quarter thick boards, but not sure the best way to make bowls with this other than by segmenting and it seems a shame to chop up relatively large boards. Maybe use a jigsaw to make rings bit like the woodsaver tool?

 

[JustBen]

I'm not sure what you are asking.

Are you looking to buy or sell?

 

[woodfarmer]

Looking to buy, but I have no idea about what price to pay. so would like to have some idea as to what is reasonable

 

[JustBen]

Are these to resell or for turning yourself?
Are you an experienced turner?

If it was me, I would be wary about the oak beam as it's likely to have a fair amount of checks/splits in it.
They can be difficult and dangerous to turn as they can 'explode'.
They are also not too desirable in a turned piece.

Green wood can be ok as you can monitor/control the drying to an extent to stop/reduce splits/checks etc.

Have a look at these for prices of blanks to give you an idea.
http://www.homeofwood.co.uk
http://www.turnerscabin.co.uk/index.php ... ex&cPath=1
http://www.stilesandbates.co.uk/browse. ... 58/level/2


I'm sure someone with more turning experience with me will come along with more/better advice.

Hope this helps.

 

[woodfarmer]

Thanks for the advice. the third url was very useful.
I will think carefully about the ash boards, although it seemed expensive it is not when stacked against the prices of blanks. I hope to get this winter fair amount of oak lumps from the firewood cull

I did buy the oak beam because it was cheap, dry and ready to go adn I wanted something to turn NOW. Boy is it hard. It seems to tear a lot and although my gouge is new out the box (Crown 1/2" bowl) it does feel sharp. will try another oddment and if that turns good it is the oak beam, if not it might be me or the gouge needs a bit of honing.

Of course the ultimate test would be to use some of the 100+ year old Greenheart I have here, but that is reserved for really special occasions.

 

[bobham]

As a general rule, woodworking hand tools like chisels, hand planes, turning gouges, etc, are ground to a basic profile by the manufacturer but not sharpened ready for use "out of the box". In my experience even the ones that say they are ready to use can benefit from a little honing and fettling.

Take care
Bob

 

[Harry 48]

+1Bob = woodfarmer if you don't now bobham look him up on you tube some good videos on sharpening. When you try turning your greenheart keep your grinder running as it will blunt your tools very quickly and be aware splinters from greenheart go septic

 

[woodfarmer]

+1Bob = woodfarmer if you don't now bobham look him up on you tube some good videos on sharpening. When you try turning your greenheart keep your grinder running as it will blunt your tools very quickly and be aware splinters from greenheart go septic

Thanks but back in the late 70's I used up over a cubic metre of this when I was building a boat. used for main keel, bilge keels (fun shaping those, 12" x 4" by 6ft) and also engine beds etc. Only ever turned a couple of 6 ft staffs on my Holbrook metal lathe.
when it was originally cut for me at a sawmill there was the occasional spark from the teeth of the saw and the wood it was that hard.

Will root out a honing stone, but have found a bit of iroko so will test the tool on that tomorrow.

 

[nev]

.... Boy is it hard. It seems to tear a lot and although my gouge is new out the box (Crown 1/2" bowl) it does feel sharp. ...

Even if it was sharp out of the box (which is highly unlikely ) after a few minutes with a bit of old oak beam on the lathe it will need sharpening again anyway (hammer)
It has taken me quite a while to realise that what I thought was sharp wasn't sharp enough (or really - not at all sharp ) for some woods.

as far as a fair price for wood goes - there isnt one :roll: even if it was free and you made and sold the worlds best wotsit, you probably wouldnt get enough for it to cover minimum wage. The best way to look at buying timber is 'how much fun/ enjoyment/ practice/ learning/ etc will i get from that piece :wink:

 

[joethedrummer]

.... Boy is it hard. It seems to tear a lot and although my gouge is new out the box (Crown 1/2" bowl) it does feel sharp. ...

Even if it was sharp out of the box (which is highly unlikely ) after a few minutes with a bit of old oak beam on the lathe it will need sharpening again anyway (hammer)
It has taken me quite a while to realise that what I thought was sharp wasn't sharp enough (or really - not at all sharp ) for some woods.

as far as a fair price for wood goes - there isnt one :roll: even if it was free and you made and sold the worlds best wotsit, you probably wouldnt get enough for it to cover minimum wage. The best way to look at buying timber is 'how much fun/ enjoyment/ practice/ learning/ etc will i get from that piece :wink:

Nev is a clever ol" boy and re: the fair price of wood ,,never has a truer word been spoken,,,
,,,,,,,joe,,,,

 

[woodfarmer]

Thanks for the good advice..
I have no intention of selling anything I make, but it is easy to pay too much for stuff here in France..eg yesterday I was asked Euro 5.95 for each of 3mm and 4mm allen keys so I could use my lathe. Axminster sell them for 19 and 36 pence! they really ought to come with the lathe, or better still use a thumb nut for the belt change cover. I am currently using my bike toolkit ones.

 

[Bodrighy]

Buying wood from one of the main dealers ready blanked up will be expensive. At least buy planks and blank it yourself. I get most of my wood from tree surgeons, gardeners and furniture factories. Though I still pay for it in some way it keeps the cost right down.

Pete

 

[renderer01]

I would very definitley agree that even if wood was for free you would struggle to coverminimum wage, its about covering costs as much as possible and enjoying every moment of making and creating. I dont know any turner who can live off income made this way.
Watch out for the green oak turning with me it turns great but breaks apart violently much of the time as it seasons out even under controlled conditions. Must admit though spalted oak that is very dry turns lovely just watch out for the fine cracks spin it slowly and wear a good faceshield.
I get all my wood for free or nearly free, through tree surgeons who want a nice shiny bit of wood in return. I also get wood that is dragged from the local River each spring to allow anglers to fish for salmon.

Rend.

 

[bogmonster]

I bought some wood yesterday for the first time in I don't know how long. However it was mostly oak boards about 1 1/4 inches thick for making shelves. I also bought a 2 inch thick oak board that is cut up for platters now. A 14 inch, a couple of 12 inch a 10 inch and some useful off cuts. The oak is very green. £10 for the 2 inch oak slab.

I occasionally use oak beam but only for very rustic stuff, usually candle holders. I have made some very rustic oak bowls from beam - think heavy carving, scorching and texturing. They sell quite well but to be honest I don't get much fun turning them. Shabby chic I think they call it. Shoddy sounds a better description.

I do plan to make some chunky oak corbels but again not turning.

95% of what I turn is green wood. I have a good source from a tree surgeon. The wood is free but I take a crate of beer down from time to time. Keeps us both happy. He now looks out for stuff and puts it aside for me. In fact got some nice cherry yesterday from him.

Bottom line is that I could not afford to turn if I had to buy pre cut and dried blanks. Also, remember that a lot of the most interesting sections of wood are the crotch sections and knarly prices with holes and incursions. This stuff never tends to be made into commercial blanks.

Getting free wood when you start is not easy as people don't know about you. Now I have a steady supply that often outstrips what I can turn. Every time I run low and start thinking what now I get a call or sometimes a delivery of something new.

BM

 

[woodfarmer]

Today I tried an odd bit of softwood beam 8" square x 3" thick. Used the 3/4 roughing gouge with similar results ie tearing. so gave it a tiny "touch" on the grinder with currently the wrong wheel. it was better. Then out of interest picked the 3/8 bowl gauge out of the box. Bliss, it sliced through just as you would expect, cutting clean and fine. So it is definitely a sharpening problem. So I need to reshuffle my to do list and make a proper sharpening station. Oddly when I had a little go using the skew chisel it went really well and I usually dislike using them. Must be a very odd weekend because I used the Botche chainsaw to cut the 4" thick 8" wide oak beam and it did not trip the safety or throw the chain??? first time ever I have managed to use it trouble free and without injury. Didn't get to try the iroko I found yesterday. Every time I pass the Greenheart standing by the cement mixer it seems to sneer at me, I can almost hear it say "Do you feel lucky ? "

 

[bogmonster]

Hmm, makes me wonder if you are using the correct tools for the job? What orientation is the grain in your 8x8x3 block of wood? Was it an 8x8 beam you have cut a 3" length from or a 8x3 beam you cut an 8" length from?

Assuming the 8x8 side is 90 degrees from the headstock axis then:

If it was an 8x8 beam you are spindle turning and the roughing gouge is the correct tool. If it was an 8x3 beam then you are faceplate turning and the bowl gouge is the correct tool.

These 2 tools are not interchangable. You will not be able to present a well supported edge to the wood in the correct orientation with the wrong tool. Not only will you get poor results, what you are doing is probably dangerous. You probably got better results with the roughing gouge simply because you were faceplate turning.

EDIT - Just re-read this and noticed I got myself muddled. Meant to say "You probably got better results with the BOWL gouge simply because you were faceplate turning." #-o


For starting out I would recommend buying a few cheaper hardwood blanks. Sycamore is good to start with. Use these to develop some basic skills and put the cost down to education. One you have those you can move onto green wood. In general I would avoid the beams.

BM

 

[woodfarmer]

Hmm, makes me wonder if you are using the correct tools for the job? What orientation is the grain in your 8x8x3 block of wood? Was it an 8x8 beam you have cut a 3" length from or a 8x3 beam you cut an 8" length from?

Assuming the 8x8 side is 90 degrees from the headstock axis then:

If it was an 8x8 beam you are spindle turning and the roughing gouge is the correct tool. If it was an 8x3 beam then you are faceplate turning and the bowl gouge is the correct tool.

These 2 tools are not interchangable. You will not be able to present a well supported edge to the wood in the correct orientation with the wrong tool. Not only will you get poor results, what you are doing is probably dangerous. You probably got better results with the roughing gouge simply because you were faceplate turning.

For starting out I would recommend buying a few cheaper hardwood blanks. Sycamore is good to start with. Use these to develop some basic skills and put the cost down to education. One you have those you can move onto green wood. In general I would avoid the beams.

BM

It never fails to amaze me at the number of ways speech can be misconstrued......
both beams are 8" wide and the oak is 4" thick the softwood beam is 3" thick
In each case I cut off an 8 " long piece to make an 8x8 square. The corners were trimmed to make an octagonal piec which is mounted to a faceplate on the 8x8 flat. IE when spinning you get to spindle turn two ends and two side per revolution. the ends facing the face plate and tailstock are sides with grain you could plane easily.
My first attempt to turn the oak was with my 1/2" bowl gauge. and it would not cut the sides or end without a lot of tearing.
My second attempt was to turn the softwood mounted the same way with my 3/4" roughing gauge. and it also would not cut the sides or end without a lot of tearing.
a very quick touch with the grinder showed a little improvement.
switching to my 3/8" bowl gauge was great, it cut well, streaming shavings off.
using the skew chisel on the face (bottom of would be bowl) also worked well which is bit of a surprise as I generally don't get on with scrapers or skew chisels.

I bought the oak beam as that was all that was handy and naturally I am in a hurry to start playing with my new toy.
The softwood beam was an offcut left over from building a pergola for my wife (somewhat over engineered, but that is my style )
I have plans for the greenheart but that needs to wait until the odds are better

I have yet to find anywhere local from which to buy blanks, I do have a source of greenwoods in the winter. Mostly oak with some ash, acacia,and the odd small bit of hornbeam and cherry all "tree wood". the only other source seems to be sawmills, and they mostly deal in constructional oak and softwood (usually Douglas fir) with some ash.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

You are mounting the work as per bowl turning, i.e. the grain is running perpendicular to the lathe axis. In this manner you are 'bowl turning' and should only be using bowl gouges and scrapers, (a parting tool can be used to apply decoration but that should be used in scraping mode).

Spindle mounted work has the grain running along the bed of the lathe and you should employ spindle gouges, roughing gouges, skew chisels and parting tools to perform the shaping.

Your difficulty with the torn grain is more than likely due to blunt tooling or poor presentation - give them a sharpen and present the gouge with the bevel rubbing taking light cuts

Regards Mick

 

[bogmonster]

Ash is great for turning. From your description you are faceplate / bowl / coss grain turning so put the roughing gouge to oneside for now and concentrate on the bowl gouge (note I screwed up my post above and got my murds in a wuddle). Get yourself a good book - the Keith Rowley book is what I used to learn with.

For the ouside of a simple bowl form you cut from the centre out to the edge. On the inside you cut from the rim to the middle of the bowl. The gouge should rub on the bevel and the cutting edge should be diagonal to the direction of travel for a shearing cut. To minimise tearout the tools need to be sharp. Softwood can be very hard to turn without tearout. Getting clean cuts without tearout is a constant challenge with wood turning and just gets harder as you turn more complex shapes.....

 

[woodfarmer]

Get yourself a good book - the Keith Rowley book is what I used to learn with.

For the ouside of a simple bowl form you cut from the centre out to the edge. On the inside you cut from the rim to the middle of the bowl. The gouge should rub on the bevel and the cutting edge should be diagonal to the direction of travel for a shearing cut. To minimise tearout the tools need to be sharp. Softwood can be very hard to turn without tearout. Getting clean cuts without tearout is a constant challenge with wood turning and just gets harder as you turn more complex shapes.....

Oddly enough that particular book is already ordered and will be an (early) Xmas present.
I usually turn "downhill" Ie towards the unsupported ends from the middle of the length (from headstock to tailstock) and on the faces towards the middle. I am sure this is mostly a case of tools not sharp enough. never had this happen to me before. But is has been a long time.