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SlimShavings

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I'm pretty sure they are trying to market GWW over hear. i use to get it back it the 80's when Antony Talbot was editor. I liked. And I pick up an issue now and then off the stand.
There also hawking two other mags. one is a router rag with an "murrican" flavor (Gil :) ). But at 60.00 a year for subscription its a little high. even for us greedy types.
Perhaps they should institute another taxfor you to help subsidize it over here. :lol:
I can tell you there at times a lot of hollerin about our mag contents. But there has been a move back to hand tools that has caught on. Along with the increase in price of old hand tools :(
 

MikeW

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beech1948":vv4ja8o6 said:
Mikew,
Sorry for doubling the population of the US like that....regards
Alan
No Problem, Alan. I didn't know how many of us have been breading either :shock: .

I do understand your sentiments as regards wanting/desiring the best for GWW, its subscribers and the ww community as a whole.

It does seem that a finer publication (name any) ought to be viable.

Perhaps it's just waiting for the right combination of people to come together with the same vision--and financial ability to make it happen. But then, often great vision combined with great passion, the ability to act and communicate to the right people have a way of making a thing rise above the mundane.
 

Newbie_Neil

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Hi Ian

Congratulations on the promotion, but you will be sorely missed on the magazine front. :cry:

I have really enjoyed all of the projects that you have produced for GWW.

Cheers
Neil
 

Chris Knight

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Ian,

I second Neil's sentiments. Mind you - promotions that result in hours like yours must make writing for the mags an attractive alternative!
 

RogerS

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tombo":3rdvp4mt said:
I guess the internet is slowly killing off magazines would anyone like to predict what titles will be on the shelves of WHS in five years time.

Tom
Celebrity Love Island 2005
Best of Celebrity Love Island
Big Brother Monthly
Build Your Own Big Brother House - part 1 of a 26 part series - free inflatable toy
Mobile Ring Tone monthly
Popular Ring Tones
Practical Ring Tones
Ring Tone Answers

Cheers

Roger
 

Alf

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MikeW":xp9lid3s said:
I do not think that even a semi-regular magazine would be able to pay its bills and make a profit if it aimed only at the higher end of skills.
Oh I dunno. I think FWW did exactly that, and became very successful doing so. Now what do they give us, in a bid to broaden their appeal? Glue-ups (endlessly, or at least that's what it feels like), plywood, painted finishes :roll: and only one serious project - the Shaker rocker. I went to FWW for inspiration, but now the Current Work section seems to be the only place to find it. Except it's lacking the comforting "and this is how you could make it" aspect that I want in a woodworking magazine. Afterall you might just as well flip through a furniture catalogue from a good auction house and get just as much inspiration.

Now why is it we pick on GWW like this? Partly 'cos TPTB for it are on the forum of course, but also because it's the one that has the least distance to go to become really good. The majority of the others have leagues to make up just to reach mediocre, quite honestly. Can't the bird tables, DIY and vox pop tool reviews be left to them? GWW already has damn good tool reviews from Andy, albeit sometimes shorter than would be desirable (too much "this section's always X number of words" and not enough "how many words does this review/article need" IMO), which will have readers coming back again and again regardless of the lack of info on how to put up a stud wall.

Anyway, having defended GWW, I'd now like to whinge at the demise of Mark Corke's column. He was the closest we got to a John Brownesque column from an ordinary woodworker in ages. I suppose the writing was on the wall when it started to get shorter and shorter. :roll:

Cheers, Alf
 

Nick Gibbs

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Thanks to everyone who has commented on UK/US magazines, and Good Woodworking in particular. We listen to everything you write.

There are so many reasons why there are differences between woodworking magazines and markets around the world. We are going through a radical rethink of the content and presentation of Good Wood and I'd appreciate any comments. My first issue as editor is out on July 9th. Please send me your comments, either through the forum or to my email address [email protected].

If anyone has any ideas for contributions, do please send them through. We don't just use projects, and I'd really appreciate ideas for radical techniques, and the use of pioneering tools and materials. Or traditional ones as well!

Thanks for your interest and comments.

Nick (Gibbs)
Editor, Good Woodworking
[email protected]
 
A

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Alf":264tmlay said:
Now why is it we pick on GWW like this? :

Cheers, Alf
??? I only asked what people thought of the issue, I had no ulterior motives :)

I think people compare it to the American alternatives and so can only ever be dissapointed due to lower circulation, number of contributors and monthly publication as opposed to bi-monthly.
 

tim

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I was about to put down my thoughts on this and then Alf read my mind (I bet it didn't take long).

You are right - GWW does feel format driven rather than content driven. Also - I have no problem at all paying good money for something but £3.20 is a price tag that suggests that the mag should be more than a once only read in one evening.

Nick, thank you for responding, I hope all of the comments in this post are really useful to you. Its certainly in our interest that the mag becomes as good as it can be.

Cheers

Tim
 

Pete W

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Alf":3f7tqkzh said:
Now why is it we pick on GWW like this? Partly 'cos TPTB for it are on the forum of course, but also because it's the one that has the least distance to go to become really good.
My thoughts exactly.

Some other random observations. As readers, its natural that we're all focussed on the readership of magazines, but no mag can survive/thrive without advertising (unless you want to pay £10 or more per issue). Now it's possible that there's an international, English-speaking readership as some have suggested, but there isn't an advertising base.

The fact that a mag might have 10,000 readers in France and 15,000 in Australia and a few thousand in South America is of no interest to the likes of Axminster or NMA, and of very little interest even to the big multinational companies like Bosch and Black & Decker.

The big advertisers want to sell localised product, at localised pricing, through a localised distributor/dealer channel.

The Internet issue is a big challenge for all magazine publishers, but especially so for the magazines that are (or have been) essentially product based. Websites and forums like this will always be quicker and arguably better at answering questions about tool x versus tool y, or one technique versus another. Magazines should both inform/educate *and* entertain, and I think most of the product-based magazines have lost sight of the entertainment angle. Perhaps it comes down to good writers who have something interesting to say, and can say it in an interesting and entertaining way. Alf's point about Mark Corke's column applies, as do Alf's own reviews here.

To put it another way, it's exactly the point I was trying to make about the reading I get out of the US mags versus the UK titles. For me, FWW and Popular Woodworking just seem to be more readable and entertaining.

Finally, in defence of GWW and some of the criticisms made here, here's how magazine publishing works. The biggest single cost is paper, and its much more cost-efficient to go up and down in 32-page sections (which is why you see a lot of 100-page magazines: 3x32=96+4 covers). It's relatively expensive to print 16-page sections, and very expensive to print 8- and 4-page sections. For technical reasons, those are the only choices you have.

So, weeks before an issue goes to print, they have to sit down and work out how many ad pages there will be, and how much editorial content. Then a few days before printing, the ad team announces that they haven't been able to sell enough pages. Now it's too late for the editor to find another four pages worth of content to fill the space, so they stick in all those other Future magazine ads that Wizer mentioned.

That's also why it's difficult or impossible to let a feature run an extra page or two, because you need another four or so pages of advertising to justify the extra 16 pages you'd have to print, and another 8 or 10 pages of content (which has to be paid for) to fill the rest.

Sorry for the length of this ramble, but hopefully some will find it of interest.

PS: Of the £3 or £5 you pay for a magazine, WH Smith or whoever gets to keep about half, and another large chunk is kept by the distributor (the people who ship all those copies from the printer to the thousands of newsagents around the country). By contrast, American magazines get most of their money through subscriptions, which means the publisher gets proportionately more profit.
 

andrewm

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One question that hasn't been asked - and may have a bearing as to what extent Nick takes up the suggestions that have been put forward in this thread is: just how representative of the readership , or the potential readership, of GWW are the members of these forums? There is a danger (from a commercial point of view, not from our point of view) that he could come up with a magazine which is everything that we want but which alienates the other 21,900 readers. Ok that is probably being a bit extreme but I think you see where I am coming from.

Andrew
 

wizer

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I agree Andrew. Depending on how serious GWW think this subject is, it might be an idea for them to run some market research.
 

Steve Maskery

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Good points. We are the techies, I should think, and we probably have a higher than average understanding of electronic alternatives.

On the subject of MR, GW do regularly ask readers to fill in a questionnaire. Some of it is demographic stuff (age, income, preferred holiday destination) but a lot of it is directly mag related. I can't remember when the last one was, but I think they come round every couple of years or so.

Pete - all that stuff about paper and pages - very interesting and useful.

Cheers
Steve
 

MikeW

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Alf":1p92l5nf said:
MikeW":1p92l5nf said:
I do not think that even a semi-regular magazine would be able to pay its bills and make a profit if it aimed only at the higher end of skills.
Oh I dunno. I think FWW did exactly that, and became very successful doing so. Now what do they give us, in a bid to broaden their appeal? Glue-ups (endlessly, or at least that's what it feels like), plywood, painted finishes :roll: and only one serious project - the Shaker rocker. ...Cheers, Alf
Kinda my point. FWW began as a magazine about the craft of woodworking aimed at the existing readership. The readership back then was primarily people who made a portion or all of their money from the craft.

But the times changed, the demographic of readership changed. As time went by more "lay persons" began woodwork as a hobby--a good thing to be sure as we have all benefitted in the way of tooling, both tailed and handtools.

But that has affected the target audience as well as advertiser dollars. There are currently "better" alternatives to FWW and hopefully GWW will become one that even a cheapskate such as myself would be willing to pay the price to receive on this side of the pond.

As for the advertising, I could care less who the advertisers are targeting. I have never purchased something because of an ad in a magazine anyway. What does matter to (a large portion of) the readership is the content. But that's the rub already discussed to death. What is useful to one small portion of the readership (more advanced) is not of direct use to the large portion (less advanced).

I have no national pride when it comes to something like a magazine. I could care less if it was British, French, Russian or from Timbuktu. So I remain on my quest for a magazine that fulfills my desire for a professional magazine as FWW once was (better at).

There, I'll now stop beating this horse. Thank you...
 

Alf

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MikeW":12klen9c said:
FWW began as a magazine about the craft of woodworking aimed at the existing readership. The readership back then was primarily people who made a portion or all of their money from the craft.

But the times changed, the demographic of readership changed. As time went by more "lay persons" began woodwork as a hobby--a good thing to be sure as we have all benefitted in the way of tooling, both tailed and handtools.

But that has affected the target audience as well as advertiser dollars.
So if what they were doing for their readership before wasn't what people wanted to read, why did all those people start reading it in the first place and change the demographic...? :-k

Cheers, Alf
 

frank

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i think mike touched on it when he said the internet issue ? will we see some time in the future a woodworking internet magazine ,just think of the readership world wide . and what about advertising to pay for it £££$$$ you wont have to worry about how many pages you can afford to print and no middle man to take your pennies , to the staff at gww just think about it you might just get in at the start .

just my two euros worth



give me lots of money to build your roads .
then i can charge you to use them :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
tony 8) 8)
 

Nick Gibbs

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Much of what Pete W says is absolutely right, but he's wrong about the adverts for other magazines in Good Wood.

I promise, promise, promise that I will always have enough stories to fill any gaps if the advertising doesn't meet its targets. The ads for other magazines are company policy, just as the BBC runs trailers. However if the advertising department does well and beats its budget then the house ads (pardon the jargon) are first to go, and then we go up a size and you get more content.

By the way I don't mind you talking about Good Wood. I'd be much more worried if you weren't!!!

We'll do our best to give you reason to be proud to be reading a British magazine.

Thanks

Nick Gibbs
 

wizer

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off topic and just out of interest... does norm, or any other 'famous' woodworker ever write for the US mags?
 

DaveL

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frank":n7l9dcui said:
will we see some time in the future a woodworking internet magazine ,just think of the readership world wide .
Well Wood tried the on line magazine, it was called Wood Extra and I subscribed.

But it failed, they only produced a couple of issues and give up, converting the subscription to paper magazines.
 
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